Sad News About FS2004- Please Read

[Guest Skedflyer]

I will just wait to see people flood developers with threats like, "the FDE is very inaccurate." , or with the people in this hobby much worse posts, but who cares about the FDE we will all just fly the default aircraft right?....

[Guest Twister]

Since Microsoft is selling MILLIONS of copies of their flight simulator (you do the math !) - they could have made a small effort with the flight dynamics...You know what ? forget improving the flight model - BUT AT LEAST DON'T RUIN THE EXISTING ONE !The new flight model really sucks !

[B777ER 2,486]

Well, I searched and searched the MS website for an email address to send them an email. I was going to post that long detailed 1st message in it and send it to them. Anyone know the email address for MSFS team?

[Guest Twister]

Amen !My anger was caused by the impression I got from the original post: i.e. that Microsoft deliberately and intentionally "downgraded" the product in order to handicap the competition. If this is a false impression based on incomplete information, I will be the first to apologize (humbly !).For once I wish that I misunderstood the whole issue and that the SDK will reveal a new and innovative way to tweak the flight model... Fly safe !Twister

[Guest]

Hey Guys, You know..there's a reason for the cross on the Meljet's homepage. It helps keep the trolls out . I think I'd trust Lou Betti of Dreamfleet when asked about this topic stated, "we're not losing any sleep over it. Don't you either.". Strange,... the person who wrote the article acts very knowledgeable about FS and it's flight dynamics, but I don't recall ever seeing a single add on that he has created. I can't remember a version of Flight simulator that didn't cause complaints, and people to talk about how much better the previous version was (and I used to play FS on a Commodore 64).mouse

[Guest Paul_W]

>Well, I searched and searched the MS website for an email>address to send them an email. I was going to post that long>detailed 1st message in it and send it to them. Anyone know>the email address for MSFS team? Tell_FS@Microsoft.com

[Guest Hagar]

Good that my reference (Fly II) is still on my HDD, and obviously it will stay there for years to come. I use FS2004 as a 737NG "sim" only, haven`t even had a look at the MS planes, nor am I going to.No matter if this is a FS2004 "downgrade" or not, I will keep it and hope for an improvement in time :)EDIT: Wow. My first post in the MS forum :-hah

[Guest]

From FSAviatorPlease note that I have not cross posting anything and until this morning I was unaware of this thread. The deletion of key aerodynamic variables from the flight dynamics equations within FS2004 is a complex matter for resolution by the relevant experts and that process is taking place where it belongs in the aircraft design forum.It should not be hard for anyone to understand why degradation of the FS2004 flight model and pitch display characteristics concerns those who design the aircraft you all like to purchase or download. We write the code which exploits the available flight model to the full, and which maximises the enjoyment of those members of this community for whom dynamic and display realism is an important component of flight simulation. We have no difficulty understanding that realism matters more to some users of FS2004 than others. If dynamic and display realism in FS2004 do not concern you, then this issue does not concern you.In the first three steps of a four part ongoing process we have proved that FS2004 cannot process key aerodynamic variables. We have discovered why over 95% of existing aircraft available for download and purchase have flight dynamic and display errors when used in FS2004. We have been able to calibrate the degradation of the flight dynamics and visual aircraft display in mathematical terms. Now that we have agreed the exact nature of the degradation, and its exact mathematical consequences, we are moving to stage four. We are starting to debate the optimum means of creating new build aircraft for FS2004 under these new degraded circumstances. If you have anything constructive to contribute to this very technical debate may I suggest that you do so in the aircraft design forum where it is taking place. I will respond to any constructive input there.FSAviator

[j14g 0]

Right on PC Aviator ! Go for it. :-walksmile Don't let the nay-sayers get you down.

[nudata 10]

MS makes millions. Copy costs are pennies. Wake up. Expect value for what the company MAKES!!! not what you spend. What are they teaching in schools these days?Dick KLBE

[KERNEL32 500]

>In>case you missed the last 5 years, go check out some of the>AVSIM reviews from FS98 and see how much this product has>progressed in the last 5 years. Is it perfect? Of course>not, but it's pretty darn impressive.Yah- OMG for the heck of it I once again installed fs98 the other day just to see how far we've come. WOW! Of course its already uninstalled, but I cannot believe how far it has come since then. If I still had my copy of FS4 or better yet Sub logics original I would probably fall out of my chair :-lol, but hey thats progress!

[Hakkie 0]

Hmmmm, if MS wants to make FS 'easier' for a larger public, then why not make it good for all users? Shouldn't it be easy for MS to make a FDE/MDL react on the reality setting? I am not a developer, but it sounds easy to build something like that into the sim. It would make it enjoyable for any user. Wishfull thinking, I'm afraid....??

[scott967 62]

It seems to me the problem is that Microsoft obviously realizes the importance of the "enthusiast" market that supports sites like Avsim, addons, both free and pay, etc, but then disses that market by making significant changes to thngs like the flight model and scenery model (take a look at the scenery design forum) without providing any advice or info to developers. Maybe in several months we will get an SDK that partially explains things. But obviously, if MS has changed things like eliminating the effect of AoI or wing twist, or VTP1 ground polys, that information could be provided the same time as GA release.It could be an "oversight", but that implies MS is clueless aboutthe enthusiast market, or doesn't care. I can't see how it is acost or profit issue. I think in most computer companies enthusiasts are actively supported as they tend to become evangelists for the products.Or, just as we used to joke in the 80s about MS-DOS, "The code ain't done 'till Lotus won't run."scott s..

[Guest keattchr]

Game Staffan?Every approach in the world, realistic GPS, very good real world weather, failures, ATC - the list could go on and on. If this were a pure game then just how many people would be succesful with it? How many of your average game players would take the time and trouble to actually learn to take off and land, let alone learn about navigation and the finer points of flying under IFR!I haven't lost a grip on reality here - FS 2004 is far from just a game. It is a very good training aid that can help with a PPL or IFR course.Just a game for goodness sake!Ray Keattch.

[Guest Daniel Pimentel]

Please guys, making these accusations about MS "degrading" and you "proving" anything sounds as if MS was trying to do some clandestine undermining of the FS market. Why would they do that? Did you even STOP to think about that, or were you too busy eroding your keyboard and weaving conspiracy theories? Do they produce their own add-ons? No. Are their sales hurt by 3rd party developments? No, actually, they're boosted by it. So, why would MS want to "degrade" 3rd party? If MS wanted 3rd party to stop, they'd lock the source code (panel.cfg's, .air's, and any sort of structures developers could use as reference) and prohibit distribution of such files (they'd make sites like AVSIM lock down the file libraries) Do they want that? NO! So stop accusing and "proving" stuff that was never denied to begin with. :-lolDaniel P.