Hi, I have recently been trying to get on top of creating simple IFR flights using the autopilot 100% like in the first tutorial. I have been attempting also to try and understand SID and STAR charts and selections from the FMC, some successful some not. What is confusing me mainly is that to make a flight plan successful I am having to delete route points to enable the route to connect up, is this correct? in the basic tutorial this does not occur, I am guessing as they had already edited the route knowing which SIDS and STARS they were going to use?I will use an example to try and explain what my problems are. I am using a mix of Simroutes, Navgraph and FS Commander to try and build my flights. The flight I am currently having problems with is from KLAS to KDEN (Las Vegas to Denver) The Route is from simroutes and is:KLAS Las Vegas / Mccarran Intl - - 561 0 0:00 1:14 0:00TRALR LAS3 81 45 516 45 0:06 1:08 0:06NICLE LAS3 82 50 466 95 0:06 1:02 0:12PGA Page 117.60 LAS3 66 93 373 188 0:12 0:49 0:25DVC Dove Creek 114.60 LAS3 66 131 242 319 0:17 0:32 0:42HBU Blue Mesa 114.90 66 97 145 416 0:12 0:19 0:55GRIPP POWDR7 52 35 110 451 0:04 0:14 1:00BASEE POWDR7 52 39 71 490 0:05 0:09 1:05SKEED POWDR7 52 8 63 498 0:01 0:08 1:06COLAS POWDR7 53 5 58 503 0:00 0:07 1:07POWDR POWDR7 53 5 53 508 0:00 0:07 1:07HLLIE POWDR7 53 19 34 527 0:02 0:04 1:10SLOPE POWDR7 53 21 13 548 0:02 0:01 1:13DVV Mile High 114.70 POWDR7 53 10 3 558 0:01 0:00 1:14KDEN Denver Intl POWDR7 222 3 0 561 0:00 0:00 1:14I am departing from Runway 25R which I select on the FMC along with the LAS3 SID This results in a gap between LAS/03 and TRALR and it says "manual" inbetween, would I be correct in assuming that this means ATC would guide the plane between these sectors from this airport route in particular?After that I wish to select a STAR for Runway 34R at KDEN. I believe I should be clicking on HBU to select the STAR from and then I select the Runway and POWDR7. Along with that on the same screen (I have tried without doing this and it does not seem to make any difference) I select the "Trans" HBU. I am then required on the next screen to select the "Trans" BOOBU which I do and insert. My plan then looks like the image I present below.Now, to make this approach work I have to delete from the FMC a number of waypoints including DVV SLOPE HILLIE POWDR and then delete any MANUAL entries also. I then delete any continuity gaps and the the plan then works and I have a straightforward route that lines up nicely with the runway via BOOBU (sounds like baby language :-). However I am fairly certain I must be incorrect in working this way. Is there a simple explanation to what I am doing right or wrong? Frustratingly I am still not on top of understanding how to understand the charts 100% but I am pressuming one must simply be able to select the correct entries on the FMC if one has a basic understaing of which SIDS and STARS to select. I use FS Commander here in patciular to check.Hope this makes some sort of sense, any advice would be very gratefully received, at this rate I will have to go searching for a real airline pilot to get my head sorted! Thanks for reading,Tom Collingwood

Hi there!Don

Hi,Thanks so much for this reply, really appreciated. I believe I understand most of what you say, one thing that might be a major problem though is that in my STAR options for KDEN in the FMC, I don't seem to have POWDR5 only POWDR7? Does this suggest something is out of date? I purchased the software around a month ago.Have to dash to work for a few hours but will come and get my brain back on the case shortly, if you could shed light on the missing POWDR5 that would be awesome.Thansk again!Tom Collingwood

Hi,Thanks so much for this reply, really appreciated. I believe I understand most of what you say, one thing that might be a major problem though is that in my STAR options for KDEN in the FMC, I don't seem to have POWDR5 only POWDR7? Does this suggest something is out of date? I purchased the software around a month ago.Have to dash to work for a few hours but will come and get my brain back on the case shortly, if you could shed light on the missing POWDR5 that would be awesome.Thansk again!Tom Collingwood

I guess you then have to update your AIRAC from Navigraph. SIDs, STARs (and some Trans) are included for all PMDG ac.EDIT: You could also connect some of your WP to BENGL for example (according to your ND pics) by deleting some disc and WP and stilluse your route./ Leffe

You might also want to try European or Asian routes while learning to use SIDs and STARs. Most US airports seem to expect to use ATC to vector the pilot to and from the runway, which will leave discontinuities on your route.

I guess you then have to update your AIRAC from Navigraph. SIDs, STARs (and some Trans) are included for all PMDG ac.EDIT: You could also connect some of your WP to BENGL for example (according to your ND pics) by deleting some disc and WP and stilluse your route./ Leffe

Yes thats what I have been doing, creates a route which works fine, but I was thinking it was highly unrealistic and pilots would not do that normally due to airspace and traffic reasons? CheersTom Collingwood

You might also want to try European or Asian routes while learning to use SIDs and STARs. Most US airports seem to expect to use ATC to vector the pilot to and from the runway, which will leave discontinuities on your route.

Yes my european routes have been easier to make, but I am enjoying coming down into megascenery areas too much :(

I guess you then have to update your AIRAC from Navigraph. SIDs, STARs (and some Trans) are included for all PMDG ac.EDIT: You could also connect some of your WP to BENGL for example (according to your ND pics) by deleting some disc and WP and stilluse your route./ Leffe

Strange, I downloaded and installed the latest AIRAC cycle and still no POWDR5 only POWDR7 is an option. Tom Collingwood

Check: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KDEN. The most recent STAR is number 7.

Check: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KDEN. The most recent STAR is number 7.

That would be why then :( Thanks a lot.Tom Collingwood

Tom, you've discovered that most all US STARs require ATC vectors to final.I provide SIDSTARs in a collection of 66 US locations (Including AL HI and PR) where each STAR is connected to the ILS approaches so you don't need ATC vectors for use by the many of us that don't use RC or VATSIM. Look for the latest in the AVSIM library as filename cycle_1005_sidstars.zip

Hi, my question is:What does "Operational FL" mean?Ex.On EDDF 07/25 STAR chart (OSMAX 2W), in following legs there are two values of altitude restriction: i.e. 5000 (FL080) between LAGES fix and ROKIM fix -> value in brackets means "OPERATIONAL FL" - so which restriction I must obey? What is the difference between these values?Thanks,Lucass

I'm not versed in Eurocontrol terminology, but I would interpret 5000 to be min safe and FL080 to be the expected altitude clearance. If you are not using an ATC service you can fly the FL080 and assume that is realistic simulation.

So, when I fly with ATC (I mean flights on VATSIM), I should expect FL080 clearance, and when I fly on UNICOM conditions, I also should fly at min. FL080?

You lost me there, UNICOM conditions? You mean VFR? If you are flying a commercial flight you're always going to be talking to ATC, so if you're not hooked up to VATSIM how you play is up to you.

I mean, there is no always ATC on VATSIM.. in this case I have to fly as published on charts, (i.e. approach charts, STAR, etc.), and communication between other pilots is on 122.8 freq. (UNICOM)(Sorry for my poor English :/ )