Hi, while flying from LIRF to KJFK after Shanwick flying toward DINIM i receive ant ATC message that force me to fly back toward RATKA and for about 1 hour I didn't receive further messages from ATC.The same thing happened yesterday when I was flying toward KJFK airport on a different NAT and the ATC send me back again when i was expecting the GS for the localizer.That was the route loaded either in FMC of PMDG 747-400 and in radar contact:LIRF SID GILIO UM729 ELB UM616 LERGA UT183 DEGEX UN490 BERAD UN512 LARLA UN521 RATKA DCT DINIM NATG CYMON N144B EBONY J573 ENE STAR KJFKThanks in advance,Maurizio Balvetti

You probably missed a checkpoint...

You probably missed a checkpoint...

That is the complete flight plan (cut and paste) loaded in Radar Contact:[flightplan]title=LIRF to KJFKdescription=LIRF, KJFKtype=IFRroutetype=0cruising_altitude=31000departure_id=LIRF, N41* 48.02', E012* 14.33', +00015destination_id=KJFK, N40* 38.38', W073* 46.74', +00013departure_name=ROMA/FIUMICINOdestination_name=JOHN F KENNEDY INTLwaypoint.0=LIRF, A, N41* 48.02', E012* 14.33', +00015, waypoint.1=GILIO, I, N42* 22.00', E010* 55.57', +000000, SIDwaypoint.2=ELB, V, N42* 43.84', E010* 23.74', +000000, UM729waypoint.3=DOBIM, I, N42* 57.23', E009* 45.00', +000000, UM616waypoint.4=GIRAG, I, N42* 59.70', E009* 37.80', +000000, UM616waypoint.5=AKUTI, I, N43* 13.63', E008* 56.42', +000000, UM616waypoint.6=PIGOS, I, N43* 37.33', E007* 22.27', +000000, UM616waypoint.7=BODRU, I, N44* 12.52', E006* 22.67', +000000, UM616waypoint.8=KOTIT, I, N44* 36.15', E005* 41.45', +000000, UM616waypoint.9=ETREK, I, N45* 11.27', E004* 38.32', +000000, UM616waypoint.10=LERGA, I, N45* 15.43', E003* 45.02', +000000, UM616waypoint.11=FOUCO, I, N45* 45.28', E000* 28.83', +000000, UT183waypoint.12=BOLGU, I, N45* 55.93', W000* 3.63', +000000, UT183waypoint.13=VENAR, I, N46* 8.62', W000* 43.23', +000000, UT183waypoint.14=MANAK, I, N46* 12.80', W000* 56.52', +000000, UT183waypoint.15=TIRAV, I, N46* 35.93', W001* 23.45', +000000, UT183waypoint.16=MOKOR, I, N47* 0.42', W002* 0.83', +000000, UT183waypoint.17=DEGEX, I, N47* 44.63', W003* 9.40', +000000, UT183waypoint.18=TERKU, I, N48* 1.80', W003* 37.00', +000000, UN490waypoint.19=BERAD, I, N48* 18.12', W004* 3.70', +000000, UN490waypoint.20=DEKOR, I, N49* 0.43', W005* 55.98', +000000, UN512waypoint.21=LARLA, I, N49* 22.68', W007* 7.25', +000000, UN512waypoint.22=RATKA, I, N49* 30.00', W008* 0.00', +000000, UN521waypoint.23=DINIM, I, N51* 0.00', W015* 0.00', +000000, waypoint.24=52N020W, I, N52* 0.00', W020* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.25=53N030W, I, N53* 0.00', W030* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.26=53N040W, I, N53* 0.00', W040* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.27=51N050W, I, N51* 0.00', W050* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.28=DENDU, I, N50* 30.20', W052* 4.12', +000000, NATGwaypoint.29=CYMON, I, N49* 43.00', W054* 59.94', +000000, NATGwaypoint.30=EBONY, I, N44* 54.14', W067* 9.39', +000000, N144Bwaypoint.31=SEAER, I, N43* 55.47', W069* 29.51', +000000, J573waypoint.32=SCARS, I, N43* 32.92', W070* 20.46', +000000, J573waypoint.33=ENE, V, N43* 25.54', W070* 36.81', +000000, J573waypoint.34=KJFK, A, N40* 38.38', W073* 46.74', +00013, STARThanks,Maurizio Balvetti

That is the complete flight plan (cut and paste) loaded in Radar Contact:[flightplan]title=LIRF to KJFKdescription=LIRF, KJFKtype=IFRroutetype=0cruising_altitude=31000departure_id=LIRF, N41* 48.02', E012* 14.33', +00015destination_id=KJFK, N40* 38.38', W073* 46.74', +00013departure_name=ROMA/FIUMICINOdestination_name=JOHN F KENNEDY INTLwaypoint.0=LIRF, A, N41* 48.02', E012* 14.33', +00015, waypoint.1=GILIO, I, N42* 22.00', E010* 55.57', +000000, SIDwaypoint.2=ELB, V, N42* 43.84', E010* 23.74', +000000, UM729waypoint.3=DOBIM, I, N42* 57.23', E009* 45.00', +000000, UM616waypoint.4=GIRAG, I, N42* 59.70', E009* 37.80', +000000, UM616waypoint.5=AKUTI, I, N43* 13.63', E008* 56.42', +000000, UM616waypoint.6=PIGOS, I, N43* 37.33', E007* 22.27', +000000, UM616waypoint.7=BODRU, I, N44* 12.52', E006* 22.67', +000000, UM616waypoint.8=KOTIT, I, N44* 36.15', E005* 41.45', +000000, UM616waypoint.9=ETREK, I, N45* 11.27', E004* 38.32', +000000, UM616waypoint.10=LERGA, I, N45* 15.43', E003* 45.02', +000000, UM616waypoint.11=FOUCO, I, N45* 45.28', E000* 28.83', +000000, UT183waypoint.12=BOLGU, I, N45* 55.93', W000* 3.63', +000000, UT183waypoint.13=VENAR, I, N46* 8.62', W000* 43.23', +000000, UT183waypoint.14=MANAK, I, N46* 12.80', W000* 56.52', +000000, UT183waypoint.15=TIRAV, I, N46* 35.93', W001* 23.45', +000000, UT183waypoint.16=MOKOR, I, N47* 0.42', W002* 0.83', +000000, UT183waypoint.17=DEGEX, I, N47* 44.63', W003* 9.40', +000000, UT183waypoint.18=TERKU, I, N48* 1.80', W003* 37.00', +000000, UN490waypoint.19=BERAD, I, N48* 18.12', W004* 3.70', +000000, UN490waypoint.20=DEKOR, I, N49* 0.43', W005* 55.98', +000000, UN512waypoint.21=LARLA, I, N49* 22.68', W007* 7.25', +000000, UN512waypoint.22=RATKA, I, N49* 30.00', W008* 0.00', +000000, UN521waypoint.23=DINIM, I, N51* 0.00', W015* 0.00', +000000, waypoint.24=52N020W, I, N52* 0.00', W020* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.25=53N030W, I, N53* 0.00', W030* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.26=53N040W, I, N53* 0.00', W040* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.27=51N050W, I, N51* 0.00', W050* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.28=DENDU, I, N50* 30.20', W052* 4.12', +000000, NATGwaypoint.29=CYMON, I, N49* 43.00', W054* 59.94', +000000, NATGwaypoint.30=EBONY, I, N44* 54.14', W067* 9.39', +000000, N144Bwaypoint.31=SEAER, I, N43* 55.47', W069* 29.51', +000000, J573waypoint.32=SCARS, I, N43* 32.92', W070* 20.46', +000000, J573waypoint.33=ENE, V, N43* 25.54', W070* 36.81', +000000, J573waypoint.34=KJFK, A, N40* 38.38', W073* 46.74', +00013, STARDINIM was direct because with AIRAC 1005 is out of runway that was on AIRAC 1004Thanks,Maurizio Balvetti

Hi, while flying from LIRF to KJFK after Shanwick flying toward DINIM i receive ant ATC message that force me to fly back toward RATKA and for about 1 hour I didn't receive further messages from ATC.The same thing happened yesterday when I was flying toward KJFK airport on a different NAT and the ATC send me back again when i was expecting the GS for the localizer.That was the route loaded either in FMC of PMDG 747-400 and in radar contact:LIRF SID GILIO UM729 ELB UM616 LERGA UT183 DEGEX UN490 BERAD UN512 LARLA UN521 RATKA DCT DINIM NATG CYMON N144B EBONY J573 ENE STAR KJFKThanks in advance,Maurizio Balvetti

Hi Maurizio,You were definitely not flying close enough to RATKA to receive credit from RC4.3. You must pass within 5 miles to get credit for overflying a waypoint. Check the top line in the RC menu. That always shows the active waypoint and if distance to it increases then you've passed it without receiving credit and will soon be ordered to turn 180 and overfly it.At that point you can select Direct To from the menu and select the next active waypoint. But as I mentioned in another thread tonight you need to establish why you have not flown within 5 miles of this waypoint.Also, the route supplied to RC4.3 will be different to that pasted above as RC cannot decode UN512 LARLA. Each waypoint needs to be supplied. Jet routes won't work. I'm sure you know that but I just wanted to clarify it.

Generally there are two reasons for RC to turn you back based on what flight phase you are in. Common to both is a missed waypoint as Ray stated. The tolerance is 5 nm radius enroute and 2 nm in the airport terminal procedure under departure and arrival at the lower altitudes.The second reason is missing a crossing restriction established by center. That is the arrival altitude just before you are handed to approach. If you miss that you will get delay vectors forever until you are at the correct altitude. Note that the use of pilot discretion descents nor the application of the NOTAMS altitude leeway applied in the RC preflight controller page for each airport relieve the crossing restriction.A common reason in RC4.3 is the lack of an ack to an ATC command will cause RC not to see you have crossed a waypoint and any outstanding ack may prevent RC from contacting you again until acknowledgment.

Generally there are two reasons for RC to turn you back based on what flight phase you are in. Common to both is a missed waypoint as Ray stated. The tolerance is 5 nm radius enroute and 2 nm in the airport terminal procedure under departure and arrival at the lower altitudes.The second reason is missing a crossing restriction established by center. That is the arrival altitude just before you are handed to approach. If you miss that you will get delay vectors forever until you are at the correct altitude. Note that the use of pilot discretion descents nor the application of the NOTAMS altitude leeway applied in the RC preflight controller page for each airport relieve the crossing restriction.A common reason in RC4.3 is the lack of an ack to an ATC command will cause RC not to see you have crossed a waypoint and any outstanding ack may prevent RC from contacting you again until acknowledgment.

Probably a silly question but how do you know you have outstanding ACKs to ATC? Is it on the display?

If you "ack" or "ack and contact" in the menu portion of the RC FSUIPC window then you have an outstanding ack that RC is waiting for. The situation occurs most frequently when pilot duties become heavy between aircraft management and rapid fire ATC comms.

Probably a silly question but how do you know you have outstanding ACKs to ATC? Is it on the display?

If you "ack" or "ack and contact" in the menu portion of the RC FSUIPC window then you have an outstanding ack that RC is waiting for. The situation occurs most frequently when pilot duties become heavy between aircraft management and rapid fire ATC comms.

Thanks. I'm letting the copilot handle the radios but this is good to know.

That is the complete flight plan (cut and paste) loaded in Radar Contact:[flightplan]title=LIRF to KJFKdescription=LIRF, KJFKtype=IFRroutetype=0cruising_altitude=31000departure_id=LIRF, N41* 48.02', E012* 14.33', +00015destination_id=KJFK, N40* 38.38', W073* 46.74', +00013departure_name=ROMA/FIUMICINOdestination_name=JOHN F KENNEDY INTLwaypoint.0=LIRF, A, N41* 48.02', E012* 14.33', +00015, waypoint.1=GILIO, I, N42* 22.00', E010* 55.57', +000000, SIDwaypoint.2=ELB, V, N42* 43.84', E010* 23.74', +000000, UM729waypoint.3=DOBIM, I, N42* 57.23', E009* 45.00', +000000, UM616waypoint.4=GIRAG, I, N42* 59.70', E009* 37.80', +000000, UM616waypoint.5=AKUTI, I, N43* 13.63', E008* 56.42', +000000, UM616waypoint.6=PIGOS, I, N43* 37.33', E007* 22.27', +000000, UM616waypoint.7=BODRU, I, N44* 12.52', E006* 22.67', +000000, UM616waypoint.8=KOTIT, I, N44* 36.15', E005* 41.45', +000000, UM616waypoint.9=ETREK, I, N45* 11.27', E004* 38.32', +000000, UM616waypoint.10=LERGA, I, N45* 15.43', E003* 45.02', +000000, UM616waypoint.11=FOUCO, I, N45* 45.28', E000* 28.83', +000000, UT183waypoint.12=BOLGU, I, N45* 55.93', W000* 3.63', +000000, UT183waypoint.13=VENAR, I, N46* 8.62', W000* 43.23', +000000, UT183waypoint.14=MANAK, I, N46* 12.80', W000* 56.52', +000000, UT183waypoint.15=TIRAV, I, N46* 35.93', W001* 23.45', +000000, UT183waypoint.16=MOKOR, I, N47* 0.42', W002* 0.83', +000000, UT183waypoint.17=DEGEX, I, N47* 44.63', W003* 9.40', +000000, UT183waypoint.18=TERKU, I, N48* 1.80', W003* 37.00', +000000, UN490waypoint.19=BERAD, I, N48* 18.12', W004* 3.70', +000000, UN490waypoint.20=DEKOR, I, N49* 0.43', W005* 55.98', +000000, UN512waypoint.21=LARLA, I, N49* 22.68', W007* 7.25', +000000, UN512waypoint.22=RATKA, I, N49* 30.00', W008* 0.00', +000000, UN521waypoint.23=DINIM, I, N51* 0.00', W015* 0.00', +000000, waypoint.24=52N020W, I, N52* 0.00', W020* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.25=53N030W, I, N53* 0.00', W030* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.26=53N040W, I, N53* 0.00', W040* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.27=51N050W, I, N51* 0.00', W050* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.28=DENDU, I, N50* 30.20', W052* 4.12', +000000, NATGwaypoint.29=CYMON, I, N49* 43.00', W054* 59.94', +000000, NATGwaypoint.30=EBONY, I, N44* 54.14', W067* 9.39', +000000, N144Bwaypoint.31=SEAER, I, N43* 55.47', W069* 29.51', +000000, J573waypoint.32=SCARS, I, N43* 32.92', W070* 20.46', +000000, J573waypoint.33=ENE, V, N43* 25.54', W070* 36.81', +000000, J573waypoint.34=KJFK, A, N40* 38.38', W073* 46.74', +00013, STARThanks,Maurizio Balvetti

Hi Maurizio,nothing to do with RC4, just me being picky I guess, but your NATS waypoints are not correctly formatted. They should read waypoint.24=5220N, I, N52* 0.00', W020* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.25=5330N, I, N53* 0.00', W030* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.26=5340N, I, N53* 0.00', W040* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.27=5150N, I, N51* 0.00', W050* 0.00', +000000, NATGThat is the correct 5 character ICAO format for Oceanic waypoints. Also it is now compulsory to route via a W014.00 waypoint when transiting the NOTA or SOTA, in this case you should route from RATKA, to EPUNA or ELSOX and then to DINIM.Regards,...........Adrian W.

Hi Maurizio,nothing to do with RC4, just me being picky I guess, but your NATS waypoints are not correctly formatted.They should readwaypoint.24=5220N, I, N52* 0.00', W020* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.25=5330N, I, N53* 0.00', W030* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.26=5340N, I, N53* 0.00', W040* 0.00', +000000, NATGwaypoint.27=5150N, I, N51* 0.00', W050* 0.00', +000000, NATGThat is the correct 5 character ICAO format for Oceanic waypoints.Also it is now compulsory to route via a W014.00 waypoint when transiting the NOTA or SOTA, in this case you should route from RATKA, to EPUNA or ELSOX and then to DINIM.Regards,...........Adrian W.

Thanks a lot, i'll see better my generated flightplan.Maurizio Balvetti