I'm porting Bill Lyon's Stinson Reliant over to FSX for a friend's personal use, and I've got most of the panel gauges showing, except for two.The two that aren't working are the VSI, and ASI.The needles will show, and they function, but the faces don't appear. No matter what gauges I place in these two spots, it's always the same result.Any ideas?Most of the original FS9 and earlier style gauges have been replaced with FSX default gauges from the Beaver, DC-3, Cub, and C208,so that almost every gauge in this airplane is now an FSX default gauge except for the ones in the custom.cab I've tried putting fuel gauges, altimeters, ammeters, you name it, in those two spots,but what you see, is what I always get. :-/ I'm starting to think it's some kind of texture issue on the panel, as that is what was keeping the rest of the gauges from showing for me earlier, but the fact that the needles show up and work kind of defeats that idea. So my hope is that someone who has some panel expertisemight stroll in here and see this and say, "Ah yes, I remember that...." Thanks for any help, and all of my current files for this project are readily available upon request.

I'm porting Bill Lyon's Stinson Reliant over to FSX for a friend's personal use, and I've got most of the panel gauges showing, except for two.The two that aren't working are the VSI, and ASI.The needles will show, and they function, but the faces don't appear. No matter what gauges I place in these two spots, it's always the same result.Any ideas?Most of the original FS9 and earlier style gauges have been replaced with FSX default gauges from the Beaver, DC-3, Cub, and C208,so that almost every gauge in this airplane is now an FSX default gauge except for the ones in the custom.cab I've tried putting fuel gauges, altimeters, ammeters, you name it, in those two spots,but what you see, is what I always get. :-/ I'm starting to think it's some kind of texture issue on the panel, as that is what was keeping the rest of the gauges from showing for me earlier, but the fact that the needles show up and work kind of defeats that idea. So my hope is that someone who has some panel expertisemight stroll in here and see this and say, "Ah yes, I remember that...." Thanks for any help, and all of my current files for this project are readily available upon request.

I don't have a definitive answer but I have seen similar behavior on FS9 portovers. It has something to do with the way the surface plane is rendered in FSX that hiodes some surfaces.One of the model builders here should be able to explain it but the short answer is that thereis no "fix" short of modifying the MDL, I do believe.In some instances I could get the "hidden" surfaces to appear by adjusting the eyepoint in the VC. Paul

Thanks for the reply Paul, I was kind of afraid that would be the issue here. :( At least most of them are showing though, and I can always just move those two gauges to somewhere else on the panel where they will show up. :( Thanks again for the input! :(

I don't have a definitive answer but I have seen similar behavior on FS9 portovers. It has something to do with the way the surface plane is rendered in FSX that hiodes some surfaces.One of the model builders here should be able to explain it but the short answer is that thereis no "fix" short of modifying the MDL, I do believe.In some instances I could get the "hidden" surfaces to appear by adjusting the eyepoint in the VC. Paul

After seeing your post I tried and was successful getting the ASI and VSI gauges to show up and work OK. For some reason the clock does not show up OK in the VC though. There are problems with the xstinradio2 and xstinradio6 gauges too. I did a Google search and came upon an old post that I had answered on this subject back in 2005. (http://forums1.avsim.net/lofiversion/index.php/t47684.html) You should remove the x from the gauge. I still can't find the two gauges though. I'll try putting a picture in here of my VC. There is some slight artifact above the ASI that I can't figure out what it is. Regards, Bob.

The only time I have ever seen that problem is where the original gauge contains FS2K- code. Those versions could only handle 256x256 bitmaps and if you gave it a bitmap larger than that, it 'compensated' by repeat-redrawing the gauge from the bottom/left sides. That artifact appears to be the bottom arc of the main bitmap being redrawn a second time.-Dai

The only time I have ever seen that problem is where the original gauge contains FS2K- code. Those versions could only handle 256x256 bitmaps and if you gave it a bitmap larger than that, it 'compensated' by repeat-redrawing the gauge from the bottom/left sides. That artifact appears to be the bottom arc of the main bitmap being redrawn a second time.-Dai

Hi Dai. Thanks. I'll look at the bmp's in the gauge to check if they are 256 x 256. Regards, Bob.

The only time I have ever seen that problem is where the original gauge contains FS2K- code. Those versions could only handle 256x256 bitmaps and if you gave it a bitmap larger than that, it 'compensated' by repeat-redrawing the gauge from the bottom/left sides. That artifact appears to be the bottom arc of the main bitmap being redrawn a second time.-Dai

Hi Dai. I checked and the gauge is the Cessna!Airspeed gauge. I looked at it with FSPanelStudio and it has two BMP's in it that are 375 x 11 and 450 x 17 in it. The gauge displays OK in the 2d panel. I noticed that the gauge is overlapped with another gauge as shown below. The code for the VC is as follows://--------------------------------------------------------[Vcockpit01]Background_color=0,0,0 size_mm=256,256visible=0pixel_size=512,512stexture=$pan1gauge00=custom!custom1, 128,0,128,128gauge01=Lockheed_Vega!vsi, 0,0,144,144gauge02=Cessna!Airspeed, -8,118,144,144gauge03=n_number_plaque!n_number_plaque, 128,128,128,40Thanks, regards, Bob.

Hi BobMy apologies for the delayed reply.If you reducegauge01=Lockheed_Vega!vsi, 0,0,144,144togauge01=Lockheed_Vega!vsi, 0,0,117,117you will get rid of the overdraw but looking at the screenshots, I suspect that deleting gauge01 (comment it out) will remove the problem and not do any damage. -Dai

Hi BobMy apologies for the delayed reply.If you reducegauge01=Lockheed_Vega!vsi, 0,0,144,144togauge01=Lockheed_Vega!vsi, 0,0,117,117you will get rid of the overdraw but looking at the screenshots, I suspect that deleting gauge01 (comment it out) will remove the problem and not do any damage. -Dai

Hi Dai. Thanks. I was afraid to make any changes in the position as in the past I have lost the gauge in the VC by making position changes. I'll make a backup and try moving it. I still want the VSI gauge in the VC. I wish I understood how the gauges are positioned in the VC. I have FSPS and can move all the gauges in the 2d panel with no problems. Thanks and best regards, Bob.

You can open the VCockpitnn entries in FSPS as well. In fact, I use it as a template layout tool before I even being laying out the polygons for a new VC model... ;)

You can open the VCockpitnn entries in FSPS as well. In fact, I use it as a template layout tool before I even being laying out the polygons for a new VC model... ;)

Hi Bill. Thanks. Yes I did know that. The problem is that in FSPS there is no way to see that actual VC panel with the gauges located. I have tried previously moving gauges using FSPS in the VC and sometimes the gauges do not show up at all or are in a completely wrong position in the VC in FSX. I do not at all understand how the VC is modeled. Best regards, Bob.

Hi Bill. Thanks. Yes I did know that. The problem is that in FSPS there is no way to see that actual VC panel with the gauges located. I have tried previously moving gauges using FSPS in the VC and sometimes the gauges do not show up at all or are in a completely wrong position in the VC in FSX. I do not at all understand how the VC is modeled. Best regards, Bob.

Bob, there are basically four ways a VC can be modeled.1. "Full or Partial panel" polygons. These are easy to spot since the gauges are pretty much placed in the same order of appearance as the 3d modeled panel. This is very "old school" and has pretty much been abandoned as a viable technique. Prior to FS2004/FSX, it was very commonly used. However some novice freeware designers continue to use this technique.2. What I call the "Cookie Cutter" method, where all of the gauges are projected onto "gauge sized and shaped" polygons. This is the method used by 99% of modelers these days, and 100% of the FS default models. The gauges are tightly arranged within the size of the $VC bitmap's area, and appear to be randomly placed.3. What I call the "Peek-a-Boo" method, where the gauge projection polygon or single/partial polygon(s) are placed behind the panel, and the panel has "gauge shaped holes punched" in it so the gauges will show through. This is most commonly seen on a/c where the real gauges are "back mounted" rather than "face mounted."4. 3d modeled gauges. These are seen in mostly "high-end" models, and simply can NOT be modified by the end user. Period.In both of the cases #2 and #3 above, replacing gauges is (1) pretty much limited to the same size/shape/type of gauge, and (2) most often a hit-or-miss, trial-and-error proposition.

Bob, there are basically four ways a VC can be modeled.1. "Full or Partial panel" polygons. These are easy to spot since the gauges are pretty much placed in the same order of appearance as the 3d modeled panel. This is very "old school" and has pretty much been abandoned as a viable technique. Prior to FS2004/FSX, it was very commonly used. However some novice freeware designers continue to use this technique.2. What I call the "Cookie Cutter" method, where all of the gauges are projected onto "gauge sized and shaped" polygons. This is the method used by 99% of modelers these days, and 100% of the FS default models. The gauges are tightly arranged within the size of the $VC bitmap's area, and appear to be randomly placed.3. What I call the "Peek-a-Boo" method, where the gauge projection polygon or single/partial polygon(s) are placed behind the panel, and the panel has "gauge shaped holes punched" in it so the gauges will show through. This is most commonly seen on a/c where the real gauges are "back mounted" rather than "face mounted."4. 3d modeled gauges. These are seen in mostly "high-end" models, and simply can NOT be modified by the end user. Period.In both of the cases #2 and #3 above, replacing gauges is (1) pretty much limited to the same size/shape/type of gauge, and (2) most often a hit-or-miss, trial-and-error proposition.

Hi Bill. Thanks for the GREAT info. Based on all of this is there any way to rationalize the x,y and z coordinates and sizes in the VC portions of the panel.cfg? That's where I am lost. Regards, Bob.

Hi Bill. Thanks for the GREAT info. Based on all of this is there any way to rationalize the x,y and z coordinates and sizes in the VC portions of the panel.cfg? That's where I am lost. Regards, Bob.

Aside from using FSPS to export a bitmap image of the layout, not really...What you could do though is to replace the "gauges" on the bitmap image with a solid rectangle of color, then load that in FS and "see the size/shape of the model's gauge polygon to get some idea of the boundaries of the polygon...Save the bitmap in 24bit format and place it in the ..\texture folder, giving it the same name as the $VC entry, less the $:

//--------------------------------------------------------[Vcockpit01]file=vc_main.bmp // this is a 24bit texture placed in the ../texture folder!size_mm=1024,1024visible=0pixel_size=1024,1024texture=$vc_main

If you comment out all of the gauges in the [VCockpit01] list, then all you will see are the gauge polys with a solid color, so you can "see" the size and shape of the polys!

<!--quoteo(post=1806139:date=Aug 5 2010, 11:33 AM:name=Bob Familton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bob Familton @ Aug 5 2010, 11:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi Bill. Thanks for the GREAT info. Based on all of this is there any way to rationalize the x,y and z coordinates and sizes in the VC portions of the panel.cfg? That's where I am lost. Regards, Bob.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Aside from using FSPS to export a bitmap image of the layout, not really...What you <b>could do</b> though is to replace the "gauges" on the bitmap image with a solid rectangle of color, then load that in FS and "see the size/shape of the model's gauge polygon to get some idea of the boundaries of the polygon...Save the bitmap in 24bit format and place it in the ..\texture folder, giving it the same name as the $VC entry, less the $:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->//--------------------------------------------------------[Vcockpit01]<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->file=vc_main.bmp <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> // this is a 24bit texture placed in the ../texture folder!size_mm=1024,1024visible=0pixel_size=1024,1024texture=$vc_main<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->If you comment out all of the gauges in the [VCockpit01] list, then all you will see are the gauge polys with a solid color, so you can "see" the size and shape of the polys!

Hi Bill. Thanks a lot. I'll try that. Best regards, Bob.