I have just come back from a week in Rhodes and had the absolute privilege of being in a hotel only 2.5 nm east of the threshold of LGRP rwy 25 and with my balcony facing the sea, meaning that I could watch aircraft lining up on short finals all week. There were strong westerly winds all week so the active runway never changed. Due to the proximity of Turkish airspace (only 10 nm between the Rhodian and Turkish coastlines at that point - fantastic view!) I was able to see aircraft coming in heading east over the narrow stretch of water towards Rhodes Town (to the north-east of my hotel), presumably keeping within Greek airspace, then making a sharp U-turn to the right of close to 180 degress before lining up on the ILS over the beach in front of me. It was really interesting, because some pilots headed nearly all the way to Rhodes Town before making the turn, so they disappeared from view behind the hotel roof before reappearing a minute or so later on finals. But some pilots chose to turn in front of me, so way short of Rhodes Town, and not much more than 3 nm from touchdown and barely more than 1000 ft up. The tightness of this turn was quite hair-raising and I'm sure a couple of them got it all wrong and there is no way they would have lined up properly on what was VERY short finals. Instant go around, I fear... :( But wonderful to watch!!! :( Since getting home I've downloaded charts from Hellenic vACC because I wanted to check out this thrilling STAR. But I could find no STAR involving an approach over the sea and a tight right-hander onto rwy 25. Most of those charts seem to date back to late 2008. I've also checked my recently downloaded Flight Sim Commander and the included airac (Nov 2009), and there wasn't a sniff of this approach there either.Is there someone out there who is familiar with approaches to Rhodes and could point me towards what this STAR was? Is it just a matter of heading to an IAF and being vectored by ATC from there? Strange though, because all of the STARs and ILS approaches to rwy 25 seem to be from the south and over land (which would be unusual because of noise pollution issues).Thanks all!

Hi,I have a few charts for LGRP dated Feb 19 2010, send me a pm with an email address and I'll send them to you.

I have just come back from a week in Rhodes and had the absolute privilege of being in a hotel only 2.5 nm east of the threshold of LGRP rwy 25 and with my balcony facing the sea, meaning that I could watch aircraft lining up on short finals all week. There were strong westerly winds all week so the active runway never changed. Due to the proximity of Turkish airspace (only 10 nm between the Rhodian and Turkish coastlines at that point - fantastic view!) I was able to see aircraft coming in heading east over the narrow stretch of water towards Rhodes Town (to the north-east of my hotel), presumably keeping within Greek airspace, then making a sharp U-turn to the right of close to 180 degress before lining up on the ILS over the beach in front of me. It was really interesting, because some pilots headed nearly all the way to Rhodes Town before making the turn, so they disappeared from view behind the hotel roof before reappearing a minute or so later on finals. But some pilots chose to turn in front of me, so way short of Rhodes Town, and not much more than 3 nm from touchdown and barely more than 1000 ft up. The tightness of this turn was quite hair-raising and I'm sure a couple of them got it all wrong and there is no way they would have lined up properly on what was VERY short finals. Instant go around, I fear... :( But wonderful to watch!!! :( Since getting home I've downloaded charts from Hellenic vACC because I wanted to check out this thrilling STAR. But I could find no STAR involving an approach over the sea and a tight right-hander onto rwy 25. Most of those charts seem to date back to late 2008. I've also checked my recently downloaded Flight Sim Commander and the included airac (Nov 2009), and there wasn't a sniff of this approach there either.Is there someone out there who is familiar with approaches to Rhodes and could point me towards what this STAR was? Is it just a matter of heading to an IAF and being vectored by ATC from there? Strange though, because all of the STARs and ILS approaches to rwy 25 seem to be from the south and over land (which would be unusual because of noise pollution issues).Thanks all!

Well, judging from the charts you will see a circling approach is only allowed north of the runway, so that kinda makes sense. When you say they did a "3 nm" final, and that at some estimated 1000 foot, they were no way flying a complete IAP. At least I'd be surprised. So basically, no published procedure here, obviously just a visual pattern. Just my $.02, correct me if I'm wrong! :(

Well, judging from the charts you will see a circling approach is only allowed north of the runway, so that kinda makes sense. When you say they did a "3 nm" final, and that at some estimated 1000 foot, they were no way flying a complete IAP. At least I'd be surprised. So basically, no published procedure here, obviously just a visual pattern. Just my $.02, correct me if I'm wrong! :(

Yes, I guess it might have been a visual pattern, but the funny thing is that ALL approaches ran this pattern - even at night - just at varying distances from the threshold. Have a look at the following video I've found on Youtube. The vid starts already halfway through the turn with Rhodes Town off picture to the left. At 0:33 you hear a klaxon and the announcement "1000", and my hotel is right in front of you behind the beach, so this is indeed one of those hair-raising short final turns!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6xrAE9gbtIThe video is headed "visual approach" so I guess that is what it is. But an ILS does exist, as do STARs...

Hi,I have a few charts for LGRP dated Feb 19 2010, send me a pm with an email address and I'll send them to you.

Mike, I've sent you a PM. But have a look at my other reply with the Youtube link!

Hi,I sent you everything I have on LGRP rwy 25. The youtube video is Rwy 25 visual approach.

I flown to Rodos many many times from London and the full STAR has never been flown...nine times out of ten the landing is Rwy 25 also.It has always felt that we have flown to the ASIMI waypoint and then visual from there......as you said down the narrow corridor between Rodos and Turkey (LGRP on your right) with a nice tight right turn to land on Rwy 25.So that is how I would fly it in FS...make a flight plan to ASIMI then visual from there.I usually flew with XL Airways who had an excellent Boeing 762 as well as the newer 738s...... some of the happiest moments of my life were spent on Rodos! :(

Yes, I guess it might have been a visual pattern, but the funny thing is that ALL approaches ran this pattern - even at night - just at varying distances from the threshold. Have a look at the following video I've found on Youtube. The vid starts already halfway through the turn with Rhodes Town off picture to the left. At 0:33 you hear a klaxon and the announcement "1000", and my hotel is right in front of you behind the beach, so this is indeed one of those hair-raising short final turns!

Oh ok, but I would not call that hair-rising. :( Remember, as for a visual approach you are not shooting a twelve mile final. Visually you will downwind at maybe 1 1/2 to 2 miles from the runway, and your final is not going to be substantially longer, at least way shorter than a usual ILS final. But this is quite general, not specifically the Rhodos situation which I can't really comment on precisely. Can't say why some make a longer turn while others like it tight.

The video is headed "visual approach" so I guess that is what it is. But an ILS does exist, as do STARs...

They sure do, but that does not mean they get flown. Also:

I flown to Rodos many many times from London and the full STAR has never been flown...nine times out of ten the landing is Rwy 25 also.

Exactly. I think it's fair to say STARs get never ever flown in real life except if you do it for training (or the unlikely event or COMM fail). :(RegardsEtienneEDITJust found this on Smartcockpit which you might find interesting. According to this final could be as short as approximately two miles.

Oh ok, but I would not call that hair-rising. :( Remember, as for a visual approach you are not shooting a twelve mile final. Visually you will downwind at maybe 1 1/2 to 2 miles from the runway, and your final is not going to be substantially longer, at least way shorter than a usual ILS final. But this is quite general, not specifically the Rhodos situation which I can't really comment on precisely. Can't say why some make a longer turn while others like it tight.

Thanks for all the replies. I have to admit that that I wasn't aware that visual approaches could be made quite so close to the threshold. But as for hair-raising...well, you didn't see the angles at which some of the aircraft crossed the beach in front of me last week. At 1000 ft and less than 3 nm DME and on a bearing of (guessing) 180-200 degs, you're going to have a tough time lining up properly...and avoiding the hill conveniently placed to the left of the runway!

Thanks for all the replies. I have to admit that that I wasn't aware that visual approaches could be made quite so close to the threshold. But as for hair-raising...well, you didn't see the angles at which some of the aircraft crossed the beach in front of me last week. At 1000 ft and less than 3 nm DME and on a bearing of (guessing) 180-200 degs, you're going to have a tough time lining up properly...and avoiding the hill conveniently placed to the left of the runway!

Ok you are right, indeed I can't quite judge since I haven't witnessed the situation. :( But now that you say it and mention those tight turns again, this short clip comes to my mind you might eventually enjoy. I don't want to start any discussion on that since it's already been going on on Youtube, I just thought you might like it! :( Quite a spectacular maneuver.

The Greek Islands are awash with tight turns to short finals. The more familiar the Airline with the route the shorter the finals.I was in Santorini last year...the Greek airlines were almost still in the turn on touchdown whereas the SAS Maddog flew well out of sight before turning to line up with the runway (worth waiting for though...she was beautiful!) :(

The Greek Islands are awash with tight turns to short finals. The more familiar the Airline with the route the shorter the finals.

How true. Did a jumpseat ride on some 737NG into Kos, as well visual pattern. Wasn't much different than performing a pattern in some single engine prop, except for the speed maybe. Really cool and fun too. Good weather provided I believe they do it all the time, saves time and fuel too, probably. :(

Hello, Even if I am Greek, I have never been to Rhodes actually, but I can tell you for sure, that sometimes even in the VATSIM environment we bring people from ASIMI intersection east and north of the airport, and then make a right 180 turn to establish on the ILS of runway 25. On a more general note, apart from Athens (LGAV), Thessaloniki (LGTS), Rhodes (LGRP) and a couple of military airports (LGEL & LGBL) there is NO ILS in the Greek Airports. So you either go visually or VOR/DME. If you are looking for a really demanding approach, try the one at Samos....May I also suggest that you download the Greek Mesh, available both for FS2004 & FSX. (http://www.avsim.com/greece/scenery/index_main.htm)Marinos KlourasHvACC Director