Hello All,First, I'd like to express my sincere gratitude for this absolutely BRILLIANT air plane! What a lot of work has obviously gone into this project and what an exceptional piece of freeware!! Having logged around 1,000 hours in a RW B722 and over 500 in the FS version behind Richard Probst's panel, this 732 fits me like a favorite pair of comfortable slippers. Glass cockpits and FMCs bore me...............I do have a transient issue with the INS/AP interface, which is quite likely finger trouble....the only reference to this I could find was on an old post where the poster said he solved the issue by downloading update 1.24 (I think). I have no problem whatsoever programming and initializing the INS, but sometimes when I select the RAD/NAV switch to NAV, the CDI slews to an off-course track, sometimes up to 90 degrees off, even though I know I am on course with the desired radial and the track indication on the gauge itself is correct in true degrees. I thought I'd isolated the problem to those trips where I tried to confirm the initial track while on the ground and not moving...I found Bob's post about a VALID leg being selected meaning once airborne...but that has proven to not be the case. I have noticed that in spite of all the manual directions and numerous posts about the AP tracking the INS signal through the HDG mode, that my airplane works flawlessly (when it works) through the NAV/LOC mode of the AP...in HDG mode, it only follows the HDG bug...Anyway, this issue doesn't cause me to love the airplane any less...and I don't need the INS to navigate, just figure that if I've got it, might as well use it.....Sorry if this is too long-winded and confusing...I've found this forum to be a fountain of information and hoped somebody might be able to point out something I've missed......Rob Wilkinson

Hi Rob, Welcome to the Tin Mouse... Bob and company did one incredible job... Yeah - the mouse is one of my favorites too... It's nice having some real world drivers around to bounce things off of now and then... B722's ??? Another favorite... I like the old and smokey jets... If you haven't - take a look at the Dreamfleet 727 - while you have to buy it - I don't think you will find anything closer to a real world 727 anywhere... It is SOOOO worth the money... Sorry - I can't help you much with the CIVA unit... I have flown it a few times - but - not very often... I seem to recall an old post where it wasn't used very much in the 732 because of it's prohibitive expense... It seemed to be more a long haul device... Hopefully someone will be along soon to help you out with the CIVA... This forum seems to go in spurts - busy for a while - then dies off again...Regards,Scott

Thanks for the reply, Scott,Yep this great little airplane was obviously a LOT of work...thanks Bob! My RW career was quite some time ago...seems like another lifetime as a matter of fact........Smoky old jets are the way to go - I've looked at the Dreamfleet '27 but basically I'm cheap ;-) Maybe someday...until then the Vistaliners model with Roberts Probst's panel is pretty darn good as well. the CIVA issue isn't a "make it or break it" as far as I'm concerned...just a way to be able to eat soup without missing a turn..:-) I tried it a bunch of times today every way I could think of and was only successful once...just for giggles, took a screen shot showing the A/C exactly where it was supposed to be with very little x-track error on the gauge, but with CDI track 90 degrees off the desired track and the HSI DME locked on to the NAV 1 distance...oh well........ http://picasaweb.goo...399199589132450Anyways, nice to meet you. Do you ever do any online flying? Or VA stuff?Cheers,Rob

Hi Rob, I've tried online with VATSIM a few times - years ago - and - it seemed to have too little ATC coverage back then... Maybe it's better now... I think there are alternatives to VATSIM out as well... Now days - I pretty much use Radar Contact for any IFR flight plans... I guess I should try VATSIM again - but - if I recall it took a bit to get everything setup correctly... In real life - I am working on my Instrument Rating which takes up much of my free time as well... Yeah - VistaLiners did a real nice job on the freeware 727... I remember really liking the FDE I was using and the way it flew... At one point - I had hoped that Bob would take ownership of the 727 as well as the Mouse - as it seemed a good match for his niche... He did such a great job - but - I'm sure it would have been a ton of new work... Keep the shiny side up - sir...Regards,Scott

Hey Scott,VATSIM coverager is still kind of spotty, especially where I do most of my flying...don't really care, though...heard lots of controllers so I just use it as a way to confirm my VA flying anyways ;-)Have fun with the Instrument Rating...Your Sundowner is a really pretty airplane!Shiny side = Dirty side down...you too!Cheers,Rob

:( :( :(

The CIVA INS once learnt is very easy to use. But you must follow the documentation precisely. INS is still in use today under the guise of FMC. Today though GPS is used to keep the INS updated. (nb. GPS is not used to actually navigate except in N.Amnerica)I use INS all the time when I fly the VC10. I have in fact deleted the GPS for the VC10 as it is superfluous. The most common problems with the INS are inputting errors. The initial POS input often causes confusion as the <insert> key stays lit until the Longitude has been entered. You only press it once after entering your Lat. Also the number sequence is degs/mins/tenths of mins. So N51* 28.3473' is entered (2)N51283<insert> (N is key2)W0* 28.8047' is entered (4)W0288<insert> (W is key4)so your complete key sequence is N51283<insert>W0288<insert>In the VC10 all three crew had to continually check and cross reference every waypoint with each other to avoid going off track!vololiberista

Thanks for the reply, vololiberista...my issue is not with the INS itself, but with getting it's information to the HSI & autopilot. I've got a bag of time with the INS in the 727 I fly, so have no problems with any of its functions...even on the days when I can't couple it to the A/P, the gauge works to perfection and I use its raw data for reference. Having said that, i think I MAY have figured out what sequence of events is causing the issue...but not saying anything until I confirm...Cheers,Rob

Having said that, i think I MAY have figured out what sequence of events is causing the issue...but not saying anything until I confirm...Cheers,Rob

Nope...can't figure it out...guess it just knows it isn't supposed to have an INS...:-)

Hi Rob,Thought I'd chip in on this. Welcome - the TMII is indeed a terrific bird.Sorry you're having trouble with connecting the CIVA INS unit to the autopilot. I just tried it out in the TMII and it works fine for me - this is what I did.Set up the unit as normal; taxied, took off. Once settled into the climb, set the aileron and then the elevator paddles to ON on the AP; mode selector on Manual. Then clicked the HDG SEL button below left of the aileron paddle so that it's showing red on top. The TMII banked to the heading set on the MFD. Clicked the INS NAV switch to on, and she turned to the heading set by the CIVA INS gauge, and off we went.If this is what you do and it still doesn't work, then let us know and perhaps we can assist further. If the INS unit isn't set up correctly, the INS NAV switch won't turn from OFF to ON.;)

Thanks for that Martyn, that may be the missing link I've been looking for. It's been driving me nuts because it sometimes works perfectly...other times does the 90 degrees off thing. It may very well be that I've accidentally done it in the right sequence sometimes...I'll try it later tonight and let you know.Cheers,Rob

Hey Martyn,Well, I'm apparently still missing something.....again, the gauge works perfectly, but there's something going wrong on the way to the HSI.......the only other thing I can think of to try is to not do the "Waypoint change" step until arborne...more to come....I took a couple of screenshots this morning, having just levelled off on the way to CONGA from VMMC. CONGA is basically 180 nm from the MCU VOR (116.4) on the 099 radial. In the first shot, the A/C is clearly on course both by the RMI needles and the XTK/TKE indication on the INS, while the CDI is showing full deflection off course to the right with 089 in the track window. the second shot shows the DIS/TIME indication as 50 nm to waypoint 1 which agrees with the NAV 1/2 DMEs on the RMI (total 179 nm)...I have no idea where the HSI could be getting the 27 mile indication from.......http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7BCIF5hraEmGzO4irSvpKA?feat=directlinkhttp://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7BCIF5hraEmGzO4irSvpKA?feat=directlink

In your panel does the HSI OBS bearing change automatically every time the a/c changes course? It doesn't on the VC10. In that case I would have to set the OBS to the heading shown on the CDU. Have you tried DME updating? That's the way to improve the accuracy of your INS. Remember that the INS in the sim is driven by the AP HDG mode not GPS. In reality the INS would be hardwired into the AP. And, therefore would use the AP nav mode.vololiberista

Yes on the occasions that the system is working properly, the HSI CDI automatically changes when a waypoint is passed...it can't be adjusted manually when in INS NAV mode. I do use DME updating but the CIVA gauge itself is working to perfection...it's just that something is lost in the translation between the actual gauge and the HSI/Autopilot. Having said that it occurs to me that as you mentioned, the INS should drive the A/P through the HDG mode...when mine is actually behaving itself it has always driven the A/P through the NAV/LOC setting.....I have no explanation for the fact that in the HDG mode the A/P will only follow the HDG bug regardless of the position of the RAD/NAV switch. I think I'm going to re-download and re-register FSUIPC and see if that makes any difference.........? Thanks,Rob Wilkinson

Yes on the occasions that the system is working properly, the HSI CDI automatically changes when a waypoint is passed...it can't be adjusted manually when in INS NAV mode. I do use DME updating but the CIVA gauge itself is working to perfection...it's just that something is lost in the translation between the actual gauge and the HSI/Autopilot. Having said that it occurs to me that as you mentioned, the INS should drive the A/P through the HDG mode...when mine is actually behaving itself it has always driven the A/P through the NAV/LOC setting.....I have no explanation for the fact that in the HDG mode the A/P will only follow the HDG bug regardless of the position of the RAD/NAV switch. I think I'm going to re-download and re-register FSUIPC and see if that makes any difference.........? Thanks,Rob Wilkinson

Rob...make sure you are using v1.5 of the CIVA INS and V1.26 of the panel. Also, make sure that this line, or one like it, is in the Window00 section of the panel.cfg file:gauge62=../civa/INS!Config, 0, 0, 0, 0, B732ADVAnd one other last thought, make sure that the plane is first loaded in 2D cockpit view, not VC. Sometimes gauge initializations get hosed if the sim is started in VC mode, even thought the 'mouse doesn't have one.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO