When ATC gives you the arrival runway, this is selected in the FMC; the STARS available being listed on the LH side of the screen. How does one know which STAR to select. Last night, for example, I was coming from Reno to San Francisco and was given runway 28L. I selected the STAR oppose 28L in the FMC (on the presumption that since both were in position 1, they were related) only to find that my course was to pass Oakland (parallel with SFO, fly 90 miles to the South, turn and fly 90 miles back to pick up the ILS. This would have added 45 minutes to the flying time but with a deft piece if FMC manipulation I was able to turn at the bottom the the Bay and pick up the localiser ATGLI.The irony is, that had I followed the MS ATC instructions, I would have traced the path used in real life.So. Any ideas on how to select the appropriate STAR?JC

In the not-so-simulated world, your dispatcher would file it for you and give it to you as part of a flight plan. In the sim world, it's up to you (or a program that'll plan for you). Your best bet is to look at Flightaware.com and search by your departure and destination airports. From there, select a flight that has a decent flight plan, and use the departure/arrival listed with the flight if available. If not, use that route, but look at the departures/arrivals available on AirNav.com (where you can search by airport). If you put the route in SimRoutes, it will also show departures and arrivals listed for the airports you entered, if they're available (some are outdated, so be careful).Basically, in the sim world:Find a flightplanLook at SID/STAR charts online or in print (online free, in print can get expensive - you can get recently expired ones for free at your local airport most of the time, from a pilot or FBO)Use the first and last fixes of the flight plan to find the appropriate SID/STARPlan, then fly....or fly with online ATC and the controller will assign you an approach that is correct if you ask for it.

Many thanks. I just wondered if it was possible to make an informed selection from within fs2004/FMC. How does one fly with online ATC? I don't think I have come across that before.JC

Very easy. For example, just google "KSFO charts" and you will find all charts for San Francisco Intl - including STARS. If you know the general direction you are approaching the airport, you will find it fairly simple to identify which STAR to use.Good LuckDaniel Nilsson

When ATC gives you the arrival runway, this is selected in the FMC; the STARS available being listed on the LH side of the screen. How does one know which STAR to select. Last night, for example, I was coming from Reno to San Francisco and was given runway 28L. I selected the STAR oppose 28L in the FMC (on the presumption that since both were in position 1, they were related) only to find that my course was to pass Oakland (parallel with SFO, fly 90 miles to the South, turn and fly 90 miles back to pick up the ILS. This would have added 45 minutes to the flying time but with a deft piece if FMC manipulation I was able to turn at the bottom the the Bay and pick up the localiser ATGLI.The irony is, that had I followed the MS ATC instructions, I would have traced the path used in real life.So. Any ideas on how to select the appropriate STAR?JC

Hi,A STAR has nothing to do with runway selection.A STAR leads you from your last route waypoint towards a point from where you start any runway approach. So, if you use correct flightplan routes (FP's), the last waypoint of your route is the beginning of a STAR. (As the last point of a SID is the first point of a correct FP route)Off course there are exceptions where you have transitions between STAR and approach. (EGLL etc..)"...,I would have traced the path in real life".... Not much chance I'm affraid since MS FS ATC has nothing to do with correct ATS.A good way to really learn about this stuff is to start flying online.... (VATSIM, IVAO)Best Regards,Bert Van Bulck

I presume things have changed. My recollection is that ATC gave you a SID which included the runway as opposed to giving you a runway and a SID separately.

A STAR has nothing to do with runway selection.

I'm guessing you've never flown in Europe.I know the discussion is about SFO, but most STARs in Europe are completely runway dependent.

I'm guessing you've never flown in Europe.I know the discussion is about SFO, but most STARs in Europe are completely runway dependent.

To clarify in the US in the real world, the SID (standard instrument departure), route and STAR (standard terminal arrival route) are given as part of the ATC clearance process for an IFR flight. This process starts with the flight plan being filed with ATC through a Briefer or on-line. Next, at a tower controlled airport prior to taxi, the pilot requests "IFR clearance" and activation of the flight plan. ATC will then either clear as filed or communicate changes to the flight plan. As part of this process ATC will also assign the squawk code. Any changes to the flight plan need to be updated in the FMC and then your good to go. In the commercial aviation world the flight plan creation, wx briefing and filing are typically done by a dispatcher and relayed to the flight crew so they can request the clearance. There are a few different sources for sim routes available in addition to flight aware. This has been discussed on several threads in this forum so a search should result in finding the other links and products. If the search doesn't work let me know and I can do some further digging. :(

I'm guessing you've never flown in Europe.I know the discussion is about SFO, but most STARs in Europe are completely runway dependent.

I fly all the time in Europe. Can you give me an example of a runwy dependent STAR?I can give you a dozen that aren't.For Brussels only:LNO1ABATTY1ATULNI3AARVOL3BTULNI3BKOK4AHeathrow:LAM3Aand many others...Thinking about your remark: I think you mean all SID's are runway dependent. That is correct.Best Regards,Bert Van Bulck

Note the inclusion of the word 'most'.The better phraseology would have been "operations-dependent" but now we're parsing words. I used 'runway' instead of 'operations' because operational configurations determine the runways in use, and also the STARs available, and few outside of the ATC realm would make this connection, ergo the word choice.

I fly all the time in Europe. Can you give me an example of a runwy dependent STAR?I can give you a dozen that aren't.For Brussels only:LNO1ABATTY1ATULNI3AARVOL3BTULNI3BKOK4AHeathrow:LAM3Aand many others...Thinking about your remark: I think you mean all SID's are runway dependent. That is correct.Best Regards,Bert Van Bulck

Try EKCH Copenhagen.ALMA3A/3C for RWY 04L/04R, 22L/22RALMA3B/2D for RWY 12/30