Reasons to Choose MS Flight

[dmaher 0]

Sorry, if this sounds rant-like, it's just comment in good fun...And a contrast to valid opinions on the other side. So I think we’re cherry picking details here, and it’s giving a skewed impression.The example above of a 12 fold increase in sales is half-baked IMO.The gross in that example doesn’t even cover the true costs.And, who pays for that missing money?FS add-ons are built on negative margins. They cost more to build than they earn. (IMO)The reason they happen is the people do the work for less than the rate.They’re committed to aviation – and they love it.If there was a ROI MS would have been a big player in add-ons long ago…when the returns were better. If we think people are going to continue to do that while MS runs roughshod we're over estimating that commitment.So called MS bean counters aren’t going to use such green metrics - there just isn’t industry money to be made.The LiveMarket (like the SDK) adds value to the Flight product that’s it…the so called FS economy is our fantasy.The real value to MS’s so-called-bean-counters is in the volunteer arm of dedicated devs..it’s the trick of externalizing dev cost. The Xbox install base, it’s all about install base for so-called-bean-counters, is about 55million.XBox is also a serious gateway to every other platform…I don't have that number - but much-much bigger :)Access to that market is what MS is selling.The active FSX install base is maybe around 100,000….maybe much-much less for commercial work.You can try to sell that, but it’s not worth beans to a seriou developer looking for ROI.Besides, in casual games the expectations are different.The work is orders of magnitude less detailed – it's just easier, faster, and cheaper to build.As an example a product like Angry Birds is cheaper and faster to build than a PMDG or LVLD.Add-ons by contrast are about pushing the absolute boundaries of detail.Taking existing technology and spending on ever increasing content development times (& sharing ever increasing losses). So, the next killer FS add-on or just maybe Angry Birds? (~300,000,000 units) “The MS target market doesn’t care about add-ons”…but when MS sells add-ons they will? Really?Casual users are not playing FS…(lol they're not even playing Angry Birds)They’re called casual because they play a game for literally a few hours and then stop – never to play again.Of course MS sells FS to casual users, but after a few days they are absent.Good luck selling them $10 items - they don’t want or need - months after they’ve moved on to something they like ;)We have great ideas about doing something that FS hasn’t be able to do in 30 years; sell aviation to non-aviation fans.I think it’s hubris to say we can, time to give up on that :)I’m sure there are changes of some kind coming –– but revolutionary? not likely.

[Guest jahman]

Your logic is right except where you don't believe the ecosystem has potential for growth. The big problem with FS is there is little if any community building (socializing) in FS itself, except for in forums such as this one, and that is off-putting to many folks otherwise quite interested in aviation. Take Farmville: Do you tink the millions playing are interested in farming? No, they are interested in socializing. Same for Second Life. For example, Second Life hosts live classrooms for MIT courses. Perhaps a more social simming in Flight could host coursework for Embry Riddle? So I'm saying there are many possibilities the Flight ecosystem can grow and for these the past offers no guidance at all. So the folks at MS are smart and realize some degree of socializing via Flight can easily increase the size of the franchise 10x and then the economics for Add-On develppers start to make sense. Further, as hardware power continues to increase in power the possibilites for flight simming continue to increase. Well, just my $.02 here. Cheers, - jahman.

[dmaher 0]

Yeah I agree with that, with only one reservation.In that IMO FS already has a mature and complex social network. (as you point out)So we can’t add the social component at this point we can just improve it.The Facebook phenomenon get’s a lot of press (for good reason too).But FS has had a working social network long before FB (FB is effectively a private forum, with personal admin rights).What FB does offer is a wider audience - it's not topic specific like AVSIM - it really is the "General Forum"And there are would-be aviation fans that would get exposed.I suspect they are more likely to become casual users – which won’t be such a boon for add-ons.Some might actually get hooked...so your right to keep focus on expanding social networks.But IMO we're talking about people with FB accounts that aren't savvy enough to Google topics of personal interestOr maybe there's just too busy...which is very likely too. ...

[747Astrojet 0]

For me to buy it, it has to be able to use 3rd party add ons, also it has to have an express install for people that can't affordhigh end computers, (slow) not all of us are rich. And an off switch for that god awful music they use. here's a question howmany disks will it use to load into your PC? 4? 5? 6? Make it user friendly.

[HughesMDflyer4 470]

And an off switch for that god awful music they use.

There already is one in FSX.

[Tierborn 188]

But IMO we're talking about people with FB accounts that aren't savvy enough to Google topics of personal interestOr maybe there's just too busy...which is very likely too....

This is a very naive statement ... because you use MSFS means you know who to google better? .... i bet you think this is funny now as well. I can not think of one person that I know with a facebook account the cant use google. Also, I see tons of folks asking questions in this forum that could have easily and quickly been googled. Regarding the to busy comment: .....And if you think they are that busy, then they wouldnt have time to use the FB account, MSFS, or google..

[mmann 72]

I can not think of one person that I know with a facebook account the cant use google.

I know of two women who have Facebook accounts but for all intents and purposes can't use Google or any other search engine properly for that matter. Regards, Mike Mann

[dmaher 0]

This is a very naive statement ... because you use MSFS means you know who to google better? .... i bet you think this is funny now as well. I can not think of one person that I know with a facebook account the cant use google. Also, I see tons of folks asking questions in this forum that could have easily and quickly been googled. Regarding the to busy comment: .....And if you think they are that busy, then they wouldnt have time to use the FB account, MSFS, or google..

I think you’re making my point Tierborn ;)People on social media sites are familiar with Google…It’s only a small number that aren’t it's an anomaly...I think aviation-fans on Facebook, more often than not, are aware of FS, FS-media, and FS add-ons already.So what's left? - A bunch of Facebook people that don't care about add-ons. ...

[Tierborn 188]

got ya .. but this could happen.... I have always kept up with gaming and new game releases.. but, I certainly buy more games since steam hit this scene. The convince and the huge sales are the driver here. This will happen with an integrated marketplace for MSFS... so, i submit that the potential market share growth is really substantial.

[dmaher 0]

It's true, and I do think we should be optimism about the effects a possible integrated market and social network.And I am. I guess I just wonder about the numbers we’re using.With all hype aside, aren’t numbers like 10% and 20% more realistic?I just don’t see major change…but I don’t have the facts.And when I read some opinions, it's elementary Watson - this is how it is....well, whatever ;)...mostly happy there will be another - that was debatable too not that long ago.

[boshar 6]

For me to buy it, it has to be totally new. Optimized 3d engine. Some GA aircraft. Maybe a few small passenger jets. Social online network play (think MMO for flight simmers). In this enviroment you could ship cargo, ferry passengers, do rescue missions, etc. You would have simple voice chat comms with aircraft the are in visual range so you can join in in rescue missions and other 'quests'. I guess they could do a realistic world server for the hardcore FS-X er. But there is no need for MS Flight to be an FS-X ++++ You can fly al those complicated add-ons in FS-X already. We need something new. Most flightsim users fly for their entertainment. Realistic fuel calculations, ATC, SIDS, Stars can be nice to study but nothing beats 30 minutes of sightseeing after a busy day at the office.

[MikeT707 1,181]

Who knows, we may see freeware in the store like "By 3 get one free" ...just saying.

Interesting idea indeed. It could be possible that the store may have a rewards program too, where a buyer can earn rewards for free or discounted items.