Good to see there actually is someone else from Snap On here.

In usenet evolution discussion groups, it is said that every thread ends with someone mentioning a really bad dude. In the AVSIM discussion forums, every thread ends with someone mentioning Ariane (akin to a really bad dude?) or Snap-on tools...

Jeroen,Whilst I respect your right to be a sceptic, I don't believe that being a TOTAL sceptic is any better than being a total UFO nut. I can't really comment what this film shows, since I never saw the object personally. However, it seems to me that you have little time for anyone who sees anything unusual, irrespective of whether they are sober or not. What I will say here is that assuming that everyone who sees a UFO is misidentifying airliners.....or stars...or balloons........is really taking scepticism to the extreme. You cannot say for certain what any particular person has seen, simply because you were not there to see it.Don't make the mistake of assuming that the human race knows everything about the Universe in which we live. We know next to NOTHING about it. Don't assume that aliens would act like us either. Why should they have only two reasons for visiting another planet ? That is simply a subjective (and indeed, arrogant) viewpoint that has no place in sensible debate.With respect to the physics of interstellar travel, we all know that nothing can travel faster than light. Except that "we all" means "all of the human race". This does not include any hypothetical alien race that could be thousands of years ahead of us in technological terms. Why shouldn't they have discovered a way to travel faster than light ? They may even have found a way to make this irrelevant (such as an instantaneous point to point jump from anywhere TO anywhere). Who knows ?Now, I'm not suggesting here that this film clip shows an alien spacecraft. That would be ridiculous, and pointless. What I am trying to say here is that we should all keep an open mind, and make an intelligent assessment, based on OBJECTIVE thinking.That is the ONLY way forward.Chris Low,ENGLAND.

ChrisI know you didn't address your reply to me, but I thought it was such a well worded reply, I should respond.I am open to anything. Given the odds of life elsewhere in the Universe, I think there are thousands--maybe millions, of spacefaring civilizations. Perhaps they've even traveled faster than light. Many are unaware, but sustained acceleration of 1G over the course of a year can bring one very close to the speed of light. But at least to this point, no evidence shows that any of these civilizations has visited us. I'm not talking about the evidence we see in the rag magazines, or on the conspiracy/X-files sites. I'm talking about evidence as ample as that the Native Americans would have seen the day Columbus landed. All we have, with all our technology, are grainy and/or obviously "faked" pictures. Yet statistically rare events, like sudden tidal waves roaring ashore, are caught often in this day of home video cameras.We do know next to nothing about our universe. But my objective mind says that when we are visited by some spacefaring race, it will be obvious to all, and we may be surprised to see that the technology that allowed such a visit isn't far from our own.My own feeling is that the movie "Independence Day" is closest to reality, in the sense that any race that does visit us will have likely started on a journey perhaps thousands of years ago, maybe more. We are already showing that we can create probes with delicate electronics, which can survive decades. I have no doubt that within 100, 200 years, we will have the knowhow to send humans on an indefinite journey, perhaps never to return to earth, of exploration. Maybe not at the speed of light, but even at half that speed, there are many star systems to explore over the course of a few generations. Far from science fiction, if we don't blow ourselves up arguing what God or what flag is the best, we are headed to space and will become the very visitors to other worlds that we wish for in ours. And even before we're ready to set out, we will have created "super telescopes" with enough power to see the same detail of other worlds as we see in earth from orbit today. We will most likely know life is out there before ever setting forth on a journey.-John

Sounds like they photographed a "Rod".http://www.opendb.com/sol/seq.htmTerry

Hi Jeroen,Is the opposite to "open minded" = "closed minded"?You want to come out west here to Boulder, CO :) :) (where we still think we're in Haite Ashbury(sp?) in the '60's, we see wierd things every night :) ) .........Back to the topic- I find this interesting, in light of the mysteries of the TWA flight out of JFK some years ago.Bruce.

>Ok! It's my fault! That hardened monel rivit I was trying to >drill out on that Saab caused my non cobalt drill bit to >break off. I will try a snapon bit next ok? geez! Next time just chisel the head off! ;)

>Ok! It's my fault! That hardened monel rivit I was trying to >drill out on that Saab caused my non cobalt drill bit to >break off. I will try a snapon bit next ok? geez! BTW, how do you like the Saab?

The saab is a good a/c, My only exposure to it is from a line maintenance prospective. The crews tell me it can be a dog on one engine tho!

>The saab is a good a/c, My only exposure to it is from a >line maintenance prospective. The crews tell me it can be a >dog on one engine tho! Not a big fan of it myself. Engines too susceptible to FOD. Throat boot was lousy to change. Battery packs under the floor? Geez...Swinging the galley to get to the black boxes...I/m sure I could think of a lot more but it has been about 7-10 years since I messed with them. On the other hand, the tires and brakes were easy to change.

I always thanked my lucky stars that Uncle Suggar made me an Air Traffic Controller rather than a Plane Mech! :) Sitting in the Tower, looking at the ramp, 30degress F., blinding rain, horizontal, watching the mechs keep the fleet flying gave me a new appreciation of good fortune!!! :) :) :)Cheers, and thanks for standing in the rain!bt

The avionics cooling fans under the floor by the main door are a bear! The stewdardess was blushing that day ! %#@!$*&*(!!!!! :)

It's a Bayer artifact

>I never saw the object personally. However, it seems to me >that you have little time for anyone who sees anything >unusual, irrespective of whether they are sober or not. What Oh no, you got me wrong. What I have little time for is people who try to explain everything as either aliens or a CIA plot.>Don't make the mistake of assuming that the human race knows >everything about the Universe in which we live. We know next >to NOTHING about it. Don't assume that aliens would act like >us either. Why should they have only two reasons for >visiting another planet ? That is simply a subjective (and >indeed, arrogant) viewpoint that has no place in sensible >debate. >simple. Because of the resources needed to implement interstellar travel you'd need a high payoff in order to make it profitable.At subluminar speeds trade is not an option as it takes too long (your tradegoods would be hopelessly outdated upon arrival).That leaves colonisation. And colonisation of an inhabited planet/continent/region is an invasion.>With respect to the physics of interstellar travel, we all >know that nothing can travel faster than light. Except that >"we all" means "all of the human race". This does not >include any hypothetical alien race that could be thousands >of years ahead of us in technological terms. Why shouldn't >they have discovered a way to travel faster than light ? >They may even have found a way to make this irrelevant (such >as an instantaneous point to point jump from anywhere TO >anywhere). Who knows ? >FTL travel is not theoretically impossible.I studied physics and had some lengthy talks about the subject with my teachers (also SF nuts).The problem is not going faster than light. The problems are twofold:1) crossing from subluminar travel to FTL travel (the lightbarrier) and 2) slowing down again. The actual point of travelling AT c (the speed of light) IS a theoretical impossibility. The laws of physics are quite firm here.What is needed is a mechanism to pass from subluminar velocity to superluminar velocity without ever travelling at exactly the speed of light.At this moment such a mechanism is not known to us, and it may be impossible. But NASA and others do have research project to find out if it is possible and build it if it is (if those projects haven't been hit by the budget cuts that is).

Jeroen,>simple. Because of the resources needed to implement interstellar >travel you'd need a high payoff in order to make it profitable.>At subluminar speeds trade is not an option as it takes too long(your tradegoods would be hopelessly outdated upon arrival).>That leaves colonisation. And colonisation of an inhabited >planet/continent/region is an invasion.You are basing your argument on the necessity to travel from point A to point B in a straight line. However, what if a hypothetical alien race has overcome the huge obstacles involved in this by being able to "jump" from A to B by another route ? This would bypass the problem entirely.As for "the laws of physics", I don't believe that these ARE firm when it comes to objects travelling at the speed of light......or inside a black hole. As an example, the latter suggests that the entire mass of the remnant of a massive star has been compressed into a tiny point that has no volume. With respect to "the laws of physics", this is ludicrous. Scientists love to play around with ideas about black holes, but in my opinion they are a LONG way off proving them.Chris Low,ENGLAND.