Hi everybody, Can you improve my knowledge regarding the TOGA, climp and ACC pitchmodes? in my FMC ,ACC and reduction heights is set by standard to the same 1500 feet AGL. Should this be 3000feet for the ACC height? there is also EO ACC Height. What is this ? Cutback on/off ? I know that some airports sid charts tells you something about Noise Abatement P but how do you term what and when an at what heights these procedures should normally be ? Paris and London could you help me with examples from these great and big airports ? Thanks Michael

Your reduction and acceleration height will depend on the noise abatement procedure used - usually NADP 1 or NADP 2. They can be anywhere between 800 and 3000 feet AFE. A general idea of how they work is provided here. EO acceleration height is pretty much a joke (according to DR Vaos) and noone knows why it's there on the NG. At least it doesn't do anything to the airplane systems or the AFDS, in case you had thought it would use that altitude on its own should an engine fail. Cutback is a special feature, and I haven't seen it being used in real life, but maybe some do. Cutback will reduce thrust quite a bit at a prespecified, but restore thrust at a higher altitude afterwards. I believe this is to acoomodate for noise sentitive areas close to the departure sector.

EO acceleration height is pretty much a joke (according to DR Vaos) and noone knows why it's there on the NG. At least it doesn't do anything to the airplane systems or the AFDS, in case you had thought it would use that altitude on its own should an engine fail.

Interesting. I did a search for that info and couldn't find it. Can you find that thread or post, Etienne?

With the FMS U10.7 software update, the functionality of T/O Ref page 2 is expanded. Previous versions only allowed thrust reduction modifications. FMS U10.7 (and now U10.8A) provides acceleration height and EO acceleration height functionality if VNAV is engaged. An anomaly exists in U10.7 software, so Delta does not permit flight crews to arm VNAV for takeoff (reference FCB 08-06). However, VNAV "off the runway" may soon be permitted once all of our aircraft have received FMC U10.8A.

With the FMS U10.7 software update, the functionality of T/O Ref page 2 is expanded. Previous versions only allowed thrust reduction modifications. FMS U10.7 (and now U10.8A) provides acceleration height and EO acceleration height functionality if VNAV is engaged. An anomaly exists in U10.7 software, so Delta does not permit flight crews to arm VNAV for takeoff (reference FCB 08-06). However, VNAV "off the runway" may soon be permitted once all of our aircraft have received FMC U10.8A.

I've flown -400 with U10.7 and it doesn't have the EO ACC on T/O 2.2. I've flown -800 and -900 with U10.8A, and it did have the EO ACC, but the profile still called manually adjusting the speed and not relying on the EO ACC. I'll be in a -700 sim next week, maybe i can try it then. I used EO SIDs for the first time last month, and it was pretty interesting. It'd be nice to pair that with VNAV.

I've flown -400 with U10.7 and it doesn't have the EO ACC on T/O 2.2. I've flown -800 and -900 with U10.8A, and it did have the EO ACC, but the profile still called manually adjusting the speed and not relying on the EO ACC. I'll be in a -700 sim next week, maybe i can try it then. I used EO SIDs for the first time last month, and it was pretty interesting. It'd be nice to pair that with VNAV.

I suspect the -700 sim can switch in different FMC software versions ? Will be interesing to hear what you find, especailly if you have the time to explore the EO ACC in different versions. http://www.b737.org.uk/fmc_u108.htm#Update11 makes interesting readingI believe the PMDG 737NGX is using FMC U10.8 ?

You are correct Geoff, we´re using U10.8a on the NGX. You can check it on the FMC´s first page upon initialization, along with current AIRAC, engine ratings etc. Matt, if you used an EO SID am I correct to assume you had engine trouble on an actual flight? Would be nice to hear the details! Glad all went down smoothly, if in fact my assumption proves to be right.

Interesting. I did a search for that info and couldn't find it. Can you find that thread or post, Etienne?

Yeah you couldn't as it was a PM conversation. I think he don't mind if I quote:

EO altitude --- what a joke in the NG...Not taken into account anywhere in VNAV. As hard as I tried to find any shred of evidence searching all manuals. No it is nto like the big Boeings where things happen not only with respect to acceleration altitude but thrust management in EO situations.I am wrapping up various stuff. Let me have another look at EO FD in the NG.

Hope this helps.

Anyone in the industry know the status of FMC 11.0. It was originally due out in 2010. Raises the question.. when/if 11.0 is released, will PMDG be creating a FMC 11.0 update for their 737s ?

Update 11.0 Update 11 is likely to include the following new functionality:1) Route 22) Improvements to LNAV Control Laws3) Enable Cruise Descent to Sequence into a PATH Descent4) Use transition altitude and transition level from the airport record5) Altitude Intervention Revision6) Enhanced Takeoff Error Checking7) Allow the FMC to change flight phases during holding8) Connect the EO SID Trigger to the Branch Point9) Down track RNP Alerting10) Use Airport Mag Var for Non-CF Approach Legs11) Enhance FP Aux data12) Optimize the Waypoint Linked List13) Improve LG/PP interface14) Improve bypass (flight plan revision) generation15) WGS-84 model (all legs)16) Enhance Handling of Runaway IRS17) Large Area Display System (LADS) for 737-C for SWA, base changes only

Yeah you couldn't as it was a PM conversation. I think he don't mind if I quote: Hope this helps.

Etienne,Thanks for finding that for me.It took me a bit of searching for any guidance on EO ACC in the books when I first looked about two years ago. There's mention of it in the FCTM and I think they just updated the FCOM to improve the guidance. If you're in VNAV, you should be able to accelerate automatically.

Anyone in the industry know the status of FMC 11.0. It was originally due out in 2010. Raises the question.. when/if 11.0 is released, will PMDG be creating a FMC 11.0 update for their 737s ?

I wonder if it was delayed due to the windshear on departure problems with U10.8a.

I wonder if it was delayed due to the windshear on departure problems with U10.8a.

Well, since going back to U10.8 re-introduces other issues, and U10.8a has the windshear on departure problems, I would have thought that there would have been an incentive to try to expedite the update. Windshear detection on depature is a major problem, despite the considerable amout of research on the issues. But nothing moves fast with such updates -- the amount of testing and validation is massive before anything can be released for general service.

... Cutback is a special feature, and I haven't seen it being used in real life, but maybe some do. Cutback will reduce thrust quite a bit at a prespecified, but restore thrust at a higher altitude afterwards. I believe this is to acoomodate for noise sentitive areas close to the departure sector.

Departures from KSNA (as an example) use cutback. You're correct that it's for noise sensitive areas. There are several videos on Youtube of SNA departures where you can clearly hear the engines reduce much more than normal, and it's common for crew to make a PA prior to departure warning that this will happen so the passengers don't worry.

• On N1 LIMIT page, preselect CLB-2.• Activate the Quiet Cutback System (QCS) on TAKEOFF REF page 2.

- All Normal TAKEOFF REF page 1 entries must be made first (including CG).

- Select CUTBACK ON (LSK 6R) - ON will be shown in large font. - Verify that a default REDUCTION Altitude of 800’ AGL and RESTORE Altitude of 3,000’ AGL are displayed. Override if necessary.

CAUTION

Once QCS has been activated for T/O, any change to derate or assumed temperature will turn QCS off. Display T/O page 2 during takeoff for reference to cutback N1 and to confirm QCS on.

Interesting, thanks for the HU. Yeah I sorta remember such a YouTube video, but I wouldn't know if it was SNA or what.

Matt, if you used an EO SID am I correct to assume you had engine trouble on an actual flight? Would be nice to hear the details! Glad all went down smoothly, if in fact my assumption proves to be right.

Nothing so dramatic, just recurrent training. It was the first time getting to use a system that had the EO SID option.