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AD 2002-19-52 Do you guys know about that? center fuel tank

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Yep, I thought the bigger issue was pumps overheating and kablammo! But, I hadn't heard the 10 minute note before. I'll let you in on a little secret - airline pilots don't know everything about their planes. The company has engineers for that. They tell us what not to do and we don't do it. If you happen to find out the why, that's great. Something that you and I like to learn.You'll note that neither the AD nor the FCOM nor the AFM mention anything about a 10 minute guideline. AD 2002-19-52 is concerned with sparks and fire. I'd be willing to bet most 737 drivers have no idea about a 10 minute guide. You tell me which is the greater concern. ;)
This I know, though I'm surprised every time I'm reminded... I also think you should try to refrain from saying things like that, as if a yahoo like myself without a 737 type rating is privy to that knowledge, you should be as well (you're insinuating you are type rated or at least regularly fly a 73'). --Long gone are the days of flight engineers and their in depth system knowledge-- At any rate, I wasn't trying to imply the AD was related to the "10 minute" issue. Just a side note. Obviously the explosion risk is of more importance smarty pants...

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This I know, though I'm surprised every time I'm reminded... I also think you should try to refrain from saying things like that, as if a yahoo like myself without a 737 type rating is privy to that knowledge, you should be as well (you're insinuating you are type rated or at least regularly fly a 73'). --Long gone are the days of flight engineers and their in depth system knowledge-- At any rate, I wasn't trying to imply the AD was related to the "10 minute" issue. Just a side note. Obviously the explosion risk is of more importance smarty pants...
Zach, take a breath before pointing to a real pilot about an engineer duty.I think forumers should refrain from teaching real pilots how to properly fly instead , IMHO.

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This I know, though I'm surprised every time I'm reminded... I also think you should try to refrain from saying things like that, as if a yahoo like myself without a 737 type rating is privy to that knowledge, you should be as well (you're insinuating you are type rated or at least regularly fly a 73'). --Long gone are the days of flight engineers and their in depth system knowledge-- At any rate, I wasn't trying to imply the AD was related to the "10 minute" issue. Just a side note. Obviously the explosion risk is of more importance smarty pants...
Zach,If you ever actually become an airline pilot you will realize what a complete waste of time and brain cells it is learning such irrelevant details. As a pilot you are going to fly the airplane, not build or maintain it. As a pilot you care that you have to turn the fuel pump off when the low pressure light illuminates, you don't really care why you have to do it. Even airline systems training has changed over the last 20+ years. They used to make you memorize such things as accumulator pressures or the number of check valves in the anti-icing system, it's not like that anymore. The current training is focused on operating the aircraft. If it's not something related to an operational procedure or something you can control directly from the flight deck they don't waste time teaching it. If an indicator is in the green range who really cares what the actual number is?

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Zach,If you ever actually become an airline pilot you will realize what a complete waste of time and brain cells it is learning such irrelevant details. As a pilot you are going to fly the airplane, not build or maintain it. As a pilot you care that you have to turn the fuel pump off when the low pressure light illuminates, you don't really care why you have to do it. Even airline systems training has changed over the last 20+ years. They used to make you memorize such things as accumulator pressures or the number of check valves in the anti-icing system, it's not like that anymore. The current training is focused on operating the aircraft. If it's not something related to an operational procedure or something you can control directly from the flight deck they don't waste time teaching it. If an indicator is in the green range who really cares what the actual number is?
I especially like the "if you ever actually" part. Not only are you being a jerk, you're actually suggesting it's a waste of brain cells to know the aircraft inside and out. I care. The people who care are the ones who matter. People like you pose the questions to the ones who study the material. I digress.

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Zachary Waddell -- Caravan Driver --

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I especially like the "if you ever actually" part. Not only are you being a jerk, you're actually suggesting it's a waste of brain cells to know the aircraft inside and out. I care. The people who care are the ones who matter. People like you pose the questions to the ones who study the material. I digress.
Actually, people like me are the ones who do the hiring and training at the airlines. We are the ones who time and time again have seen people like you struggle through training because they are focusing on the wrong things. You can recite every part in the aircraft from memory but what good is it going to do if you can't actually fly the thing.

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--Long gone are the days of flight engineers and their in depth system knowledge--
Sadly, you're right. It'd make my job much easier if FEs were still around.I was talking about nerdy pocket-protector, build airplane types, not Flight Engineers. They're the ones who write the manuals to comply with the ADs.Either way, it's interesting to hear about the pumps getting un-primed. Where did your friend pick that tidbit up? I've only been flying the 737 since 2007, so I've only ever flown it with AD 2002-19-52. Maybe before that they did have problems with un-primed pumps. Since the AD came out, it probably isn't an issue anymore.

Matt Cee

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Gents-While we are on the topic:1) One of our Tech Advisers discovered that the scavenge system in the NGX is moving fuel at a rate 10x the proper value. While testing the airplane I had put a x10 factor variable on the rate of flow in order to speed the process of testing- and then forgot to take it out. oops. That has already been corrected in SP1b....2) Beginning with aircraft build line number 1494 (May '04) all new build NGs have had the updated CWT fuel pumps. It is our understanding that it is acceptable to run the CWT dry when flying an NG that was built with, or modified to use the new technology CWT fuel pumps. HOWEVER: many airlines are still providing direction to their crews to follow the guidance provided under AD 2002-19-52 because it keeps them using a uniform standard of operation without regard to whether the airplane requires the AD compliance or not. (Remember- uniformity is the key to air safety!) I suspect that once the last airplane in the fleet is updated, these airlines will begin to remove the AD guidance and the crew training and procedures will go back to following the guidance provided under TBC-48 R1, which can be found in your NGX manuals. It will vary a bit by airline... but the bottom line is that if your airplane has the new tech pumps you can suck the tank dry- if it does not you must follow the AD guidance.(Every NGX had the new tech pumps installed free of charge... just because we are so generous! LOL.gif )Hope that helps!


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Actually, people like me are the ones who do the hiring and training at the airlines. We are the ones who time and time again have seen people like you struggle through training because they are focusing on the wrong things. You can recite every part in the aircraft from memory but what good is it going to do if you can't actually fly the thing.
That scares me with the attitude exhibited above. And knowing systems in and out doesn't take away from flying skill, it simply means one has more than a superficial understanding of what's going on. Unfortunately crash course schools are flooding the regionals with folks that have the same attitude. Anyway, I know you claim to be a professional. You sent me a rude PM months ago making sure I knew your "credentials". That is all.
Sadly, you're right. It'd make my job much easier if FEs were still around.I was talking about nerdy pocket-protector, build airplane types, not Flight Engineers. They're the ones who write the manuals to comply with the ADs.Either way, it's interesting to hear about the pumps getting un-primed. Where did your friend pick that tidbit up? I've only been flying the 737 since 2007, so I've only ever flown it with AD 2002-19-52. Maybe before that they did have problems with un-primed pumps. Since the AD came out, it probably isn't an issue anymore.
Thanks for humoring me and my tidbits. Lol. I'm glad to see a professional that acts professional, courteous, and respectful regardless of the size/weight of the aircraft I fly myself.Honestly I don't really know where my friend picked that up. He's been on the aircraft since the mid 80's so I'm inclined to listen to him. I had asked about the fuel pumps in conversation and eventually it lead to this.
That's interesting. Thanks for the update as always.

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Zachary Waddell -- Caravan Driver --

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/zwaddell

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Thanks Robert for the Scavenge fix! ;)About the AD... I think that is already expired and are expired also the eventual date extensions, so, it is probable that are now almost all modified.PS: Robert, have you fixed also the ground/air logic of the scavenge? It must work either on ground and in flight, but it is working now only in air.


Regards

Andrea Daviero

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Gents-While we are on the topic:1) One of our Tech Advisers discovered that the scavenge system in the NGX is moving fuel at a rate 10x the proper value. While testing the airplane I had put a x10 factor variable on the rate of flow in order to speed the process of testing- and then forgot to take it out. oops. That has already been corrected in SP1b....
Which consequence has the 10X flow ? Sorry for the question but I'm learning.I fly without issues ( set in the FMC ) but I assume there is no problem for everybody else, it is just to increment my knowledge.Thx

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Which consequence has the 10X flow ? Sorry for the question but I'm learning.I fly without issues ( set in the FMC ) but I assume there is no problem for everybody else, it is just to increment my knowledge.Thx
The consequence is that if you are flying with over 400kgs of fuel in the center tank, with relative pumps off, when wing tank 1 has less than 2000kgs fuel will flow from the center tank to the #1 tank with a rate of about 30kgs per minute.You can imagine that after few minutes there will be a 400 KGs of difference (umbalance) between the 2 wing tanks.The real one has a much less rate so the few kgs of umbalance can be corrected either using APU on ground or at the next refueling.Obviously, if your center tanks are empty before using wings, the problem will be never seen.

Regards

Andrea Daviero

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Regarding the importance of pilots know well the airplane, its very important for many reasons and its not waste of time or brain cells.Thanks for Capt Randazzo installed new pumps free of charge for our NGX.I get an old SOP from GOL here and that is version 18 dated Jan/2007 (that could be change already or the airline has made AD terminating action installed new pumps)"AT FL 100:Fixed Landing Lts - OFFSeat Belt Sign ( if adviseble)- OFFIf the center tank fuel pump switches were OFFfor takeoff and the centertank contains more than950 kilograms, position both center tank fuelpump switches ON above 10,000 feet or after thepitch attitude has been reduced to beginacceleration to a climb speed of 250 knots orgreater.During climb or cruise, position one center tankfuel pump switch OFF when center tank fuelquantity reaches approximately 950 kilograms.Open the crossfeed valve to minimize fuelimbalance.Position the remaining center tank fuel pumpswitch OFF without delay and close the crossfeedvalve when the Master Caution and FUEL systemannunciator illuminate."

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Thanks for Capt Randazzo installed new pumps free of charge for our NGX.
It is rumored he found them on a lucky e-bay auction :(

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