This guy has the gall to post several packages of freeware aircraft:http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...&category=21935http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...&category=21935http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...&category=21935http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...&category=21935:-8 Misha

Dear me! Well spotted, have you alerted ebay to this?

I have written the guy a message that he's violating ebay rules and copyright laws. Haven't alerted eaby yet. Where/how do you do that?Misha

First, I don't speak German so I won't comment on what this party is doing BUT let me present a hypothetical scenario.Let's say I collect a dozen freeware a/c from various sources. None of the a/c have any EULA re distributing same as long as the original author is given credit.now, I burn a bunch of cd's containing these a/c with their original documentation.I then advertise on EBAY selling same for $10.00 US. In the description I plainly state that these aircraft are all freeware and are available individually if the user wishes to search for them. If they would like to have them all on one CD, they can pay me $10.00Do you see something wrong in this and, if so, what?BTW, just for the record, I have NO plans/time to do anything like this.Vic

This issue has been beaten to death in these forums before...Before even getting into the hypothetical, as a German-speaker, let me clarify that the seller of the items in these particular auctions has not stated that the aircraft are freeware and that it is quite self-evident from the screenshots that some FFX, POSKY and similar aircraft are included that are subject to EULAs. Besides, I do not recall downloading a freeware aircraft that did not explicitly specify in the readme that distribution without permission is forbidden. All this is beside the point, however, as the rules of ebay.de plainly state that it is not permitted to sell self-made CD-ROMs of downloaded software. You can sell original CD-ROMs. Getting a bit into your hypothetical, let's assume I am not selling the aircraft, but instead my services. You pay me for the time I spend to download all this stuff and burn it onto a CD. For the first transaction this may make snse. But for every further transaction burning a new CD costs you next to nothing. Ergo, you are unjustly enriching yourself by the hard work of others who have explicitly disallowed the kind of distribution this guy is practicing. End of story.Misha

>This issue has been beaten to death in these forums>before...>Then WHY did you even bring it up again????? Just reporting the violation to ebay was enough, why start it up again? OK, you want a pat on the back - pat,pat.>Before even getting into the hypothetical, as a>German-speaker, which is why I prefaced my remark the way I did.>All this is beside the point, however, as the rules of ebay.de>plainly state that it is not permitted to sell self-made>CD-ROMs of downloaded software. You can sell original CD-ROMs.>Totally different situation. Again, to my question - since it's an ebay violation, why did you report it here - since it has been beaten to death agaion and again?>CD. For the first transaction this may make snse. But for>every further transaction burning a new CD costs you next to>nothing. Ergo, you are unjustly enriching yourself by the hard>work of others who have explicitly disallowed the kind of>distribution this guy is practicing. The whole premise of free enterprise is based upon recovering your costs quickly and making a profit on the remainder.The hypothetical was based upon no explicit or implicit disallowing of any form of distribution. So 'unjust' enrichment is irrelevant in this case.NOW, it's the end of story. :)BTW, I happen to agree with you generally.Vic

Well isnt this what All node are busy does???You pay to download stuff, Agreed you can get in for free, but take away the file library, and you get nothing you cant get here.JAson

In a sense, I agree Jason altho to some the gut reaction would be totally different.The aviation sites that charge a membership in essence are charging for the freeware. Now, the purists are going to jump in and say - no they're charging for the site as a distribution source.My contention, given NO SPECIFIC PROHOBITIONS, is that my scenario is NOT charging for the freeware but for the DISTRIBUTION.To those who respond that it is a violation of the EULA to charge for distribution of the product I say - look at the various websites that charge membership for fast downloads.I'm just being the devil's advocate here, I have no desire to distribute and I do have paid membership to a few sites and I am not complaining about how the sites are run.It's just that sometimes I see kneejerk reactions to things that just need to be looked at from different viewpoints.For example, there are some folks on these sites who consider ANYONE who uses the NOCD crack as pirates.Anyhow - Mischa is correct enough has been said about all this - even if he did bring it up again :)Vic

"Anyhow - Mischa is correct enough has been said about all this - even if he did bring it up again :)"It takes two to tango....My take--most freeware developers don't have the time and resources to be lawyers and dot every "I" and cross every "T" in their EULA's. It simply becomes a matter of respect--does someone respect me enough to at least seek my permission before stealing my work, or are they simply a leech trying to fool people into thinking that they are doing a "service"...As already noted, most of these scams posted on ebay are attempts at profit, plain and simple. I don't hold flightsim.com or even FSPlanet in the same league, as they at least offer some limited free access to their file libraries. IMHO, those that seek to rationalize this type of practice on ebay and call those who alert us to it as alarmists or extremists are not part of the community I respect. We either stand up for the little guy who does good work but can't protect it, or we don't. There's no middle ground... I know that wasn't the intent of your posts in the thread, as you're playing the role of devil's advocate--but some here feel that this practice is fine...'nuff said

Jason and Vic,This subject has been covered many times... the difference between a site like FS.com charging "membership" fees for faster downloads and these compilation cd's we see on eBay from time to time is that the authors knowingly upload to FS.com. It is their contribution to the hobby and longevity of the site. They upload their creations to FS.com by their own choice. Pirate sites (who poach files from legitmate sites, then charge for downloading) and these compile sellers operate without the authors' consent and are clearly in violation of international treaties.Simply notify eBay and they'll quickly yank the complile CD auctions. Because they are illegal.

Jason, sorry to interrupt, but you need to remove one of the images in your signature. Only one image allowed guy. :)

>The whole premise of free enterprise is based upon recovering your costs quickly and making a profit on the remainder.The hypothetical was based upon no explicit or implicit disallowing of any form of distribution. So 'unjust' enrichment is irrelevant in this case.http://www.hifisim.com/images/as2betateam.jpg

I would tend to agree with A321 about certain sites not beeing too far off the same course as these people selling stuff they burn on a cd. However there is one major difference that is overlooked. For the most part, the author himself has uploaded his work to say for instante 'All nodes busy.com' and thus allowed it to be used in a pay-to-get (fast) framework. Now a certain other site that shall remain somewhat nameless (lets call it FSTerra), would most definately fall into the same category as this little ebay entrepanour.My personal view is that its a serious problem in the first place to charge both a membership fee as well at the same time running a site jampacked with sponsorships. This goes for both fornamed sites.How AVSim carries on doing all this service for free continues to baffle and amaze me.

>However there is one major difference that is overlooked. For the most part, the author himself has uploaded his work to say for instante 'All nodes busy.com' and thus allowed it to be used in a pay-to-get (fast) framework.http://www.hifisim.com/images/as2betateam.jpg

First IANAL so I won't even pretend to spout what is legal or illegal. So what is being siad then is, in my scenario, if I were to contact the freeware author and have his permission to use his work in my compilation - then I am doing nothing illegal - not violating any copyrights nor breaking any rules.That said, what bothers me about the OP approach is that, from what I can determine, he has absolutely NO IDEA whether or not the vendor has permission from the freeware developers. Chances are he's correct but still - to paint this guy with the 'crook' brush without confirmation is, IMHO, just as blatantly offensive as the guy who's selling the freeware CD.I guess what I'm really responding to is the alarmist attitude. I'm old enough to remember many horrible things that were done in the name of 'justice and fairness and the American way'. I know of people who have lost their business and their lives because of rumor and innuendo. I just get a little frightened when I see the beginnings of the same mentality in some of these posts.let me throw one more hypothetical :) same situation ONLY the vendor HAS the permission of the freeware author(s) and other than the raw cost of the ebay listing, all profits go to a charity. This is NOT publicized in the listing but can be read in the readme file after purchase. Now, some alarmist contacts ebay screaming illegal copyright violation etc without ever taking the time to check out the situation and the listing gets pulled and the vendor gets banned from ebay. Now who's damaging who? All I say is before posting someone's contact info etc and screaming foul, a little ground work should be done. Even though I believe the OP is correct in his assumption, it is STILL an assumption.Well, I've probably offended enough people for one day - time to go fly. Gotta keep telling myself, it's a hobby........Vic