Being an early adopter to new CPU tech doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to overclock the hell out of it! Just my .02

An excellent point: Get IB when released, OC moderately to 4.5 GHz, then wait for OC experience to accumulate before driving OC to the limit.Cheers,- jahman.

It's not about OCing. Things like the SB P67 recall can happen regardless of wether you OC or not. PCIe 3.0, Thunderbolt, Tri-Gate, new Z77 chipset... letting it all mature is a good advise

Yes, there's a sweet spot there, because if you take too long then you're going to be waiting for the next generation (PCIe 4 has been announced, and it's 4x the BW of PCIe 3! :LMAO: ).Cheers,- jahman.

Good god, that was a lot of information! I love the forums btw, vey friendly.. I usually jump from forum to forum, but I may stick this one out :)Again, thank you gents so much. Great, great stuff here, and again, thanks for the quick replies!Alright, so, as for the debate of SB vs IB, I may just decide to wait it out.Here's my plan:1) Get the Ivy i7-3770K, not OCing (maybe a quick OC to 4GHz, but that's it! I promise!) until there's some solid info on it, the price is decent, and I believe the multiplier is up 'till about 61, or 62.2) A WD Caviar Black 1TB x2 - one for FSX, one for media (tv shows, etc), 60GB SSD, brand not decided yet, for windows3) Graphics TBD, anyone with an est. for Kepler? Because, it probably will be a summer build... (If no Kepler, then an MSI GTX580 Lightning should fulfill my needs..... for a while..)Now, the issue arises; what Mobo? Do you think the Maximus IV Extreme-Z would use Ivy to it's potential?Also, I need some RAM recommendations, in terms of brand & config, specific to Ivy... It does use the LGA1105 socket...Ah, technology is a fast-paced mistress... Must keep up, but usually can't afford her bills!Again, thank you guys so much, this has been a valuable source of information!Aamir

Being an early adopter to new CPU tech doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to overclock the hell out of it! Just my .02

+1

Also, assuming the IB CPUs do hit the streets in April, it's always risky to be an early adopter. A number of folks smoked their new SB processors early in the game before a good body of corporate knowledge on the SB's sensitivity to voltage was developed. The IB CPUs, again, are something of an unknown. If you want to be a pioneer...great. But if you're saving your pennies for a good reliable FS machine, you could have a disaster on your hand by being the first to tinker with the new chips. So that said, I'm thinking that June is a more realistic target date for a new IB build--let the extreme overclockers be the guinea pigs!

+1, but don't you think the stock multiplier for a while, then a massive OC later would do me good? I mean, if I'm waiting for Ivy.... May as well really....

"Do you think the Maximus IV Extreme-Z would use Ivy to it's potential?"Nope. No PCIe 3.0 with that board. If you're going to wait until Intel rolls IB out you might asd well get a Z77 board

The folks insisting on SB will likely be the first to go for IB when it's released! :LMAO:One more time, a 10% performance increase is what you get just from the die-shrink (a very, very costly investment for Intel, BTW). And in addition to the die-shrink, IB sports Tri-Gate. And in addition to the die-shrink and Tri-Gate, IB sports PCIe 3.0 (2x the BW of PCIe 2).So if you want top of the line FSX performance, it's foolish to buy SB now when IB is just around the corner.Cheers,- jahman.

I never said IB is not going to be better. You are quite misinterpreting my words a bit.PCIE3 will be of benefit, so is Kepler. But still poster said now. And not in 6 months.Anyway, I see he decided to wait. Good for him!

But still poster said now. And not in 6 months.I will not be continuing on this discussion.

Well, I may be tempted to wait a couple of months for Ivy, I'm still in the hardware spec phase, however, there is no doubt as to whether or not I am going to build a desktop; I am.Alas, your contributions have been vital to my decision making process, so, thank you Word Not Allowed :im Not Worthy:

Nope. No PCIe 3.0 with that board. If you're going to wait until Intel rolls IB out you might asd well get a Z77 board

Important information, thanks for that. So, if I wait for Ivy Bridge, how long do you think Asus will take to push out a Maximus V or a new Rampage maybe? 2 Months? (So, about June then?)And Kepler is expected about June as well, so, if I wait for Ivy, the est. on my build would be about June/July? :Thinking:Aamir

Nice system. Instead of the Caviar Green, get a 1TB Caviar Black devoted to FSX. The Greens are slower speed HDDs, built to be quiet and energy efficient above all else. The SSD is up for debate: I suggest getting another Caviar Black at this time, skipping on the SSD since they're so expensive. I'll give you an idea: I have a Caviar black for my system drive, one for FSX, an older/smaller Caviar Black for storage of FSX and system "stuff" (add on installations, system drivers, etc), and yet another for mass storage (pictures, iTunes music, etc.)

Thanks for that tidbit, I've made the appropriate changes where config is concerned.. (2x 1TB Caviar Black, one for FSX, one for Data; 60GB SSD, for Windows)Appropriate?

For RAM, I suggest any dual channel(two sticks) 1600MHz 8GB 1.5v kit.For your GPU, that 580 is nice! Stick with that. The 590 is geared towards benchmarkers and multi-moniter gamers.That's nice, cool case, though I think it looks a bit cheesy and tween geek oriented. That's always a very subjective area.

Perfect, thank you :) Any RAM brand recommendations?Okay, so say I go Kepler.... Anyway, say I get a 580, and then decide to get into some serious gaming (already am a serious gamer, but on the Xbox, so not really a serious gamer then -.-), I can just SLI it? And then, when I want to play FSX, just somehow disconnect the 2nd 580, so I only have 1 running? Is that possible via software? (shut-down a card in an SLI config?)Haha, well, I AM a geek.. And a teen :lol:

Yeah, more July than June if you want to give Kepler some time, assuming that Kepler is out in June.You don't really need a Maximus / Rampage if it's not for a Tri-SLI setup, at least with the current P67/Z68 line ups. They don't overclock any better anyway (not sure where you got that info but I've seen no evidence of that)With PCIe 3.0 it's possible that those top of the line boards won't be needed for 3 SLI/XFire, and it's up to NVidia to release a PCIe 3.0 version of the NF200 chip for those boards if it's needed.

Yeah, more July than June if you want to give Kepler some time, assuming that Kepler is out in June.You don't really need a Maximus / Rampage if it's not for a Tri-SLI setup, at least with the current P67/Z68 line ups. They don't overclock any better anyway (not sure where you got that info but I've seen no evidence of that)With PCIe 3.0 it's possible that those top of the line boards won't be needed for 3 SLI/XFire, and it's up to NVidia to release a PCIe 3.0 version of the NF200 chip for those boards if it's needed.

Ah, okay. I was always under the impression they OC'd a bit better. I read that in a couple of the board's reviews. Also, one of the reasons is the excellent BIOS, though I do suppose a lot of modern Asus Mobos have UEFI.Alright, so I do suppose the Maximus/Rampage is a bit of overkill, but only time will tell what Asus plan on releasing for Ivy...Aamir

+1, but don't you think the stock multiplier for a while, then a massive OC later would do me good? I mean, if I'm waiting for Ivy.... May as well really....

Well there are two relevant points I want to make here:1. Yes, it's good to wait until the overclocking tolerance of the chips is known before we try it in order to avoid doing damage.2. More importantly, it's entirely possible that the new tri-gate matrix in the Ivy Bridge CPUs will be *less* overclockable than its 2D predecessor. Waiting to see what the IB can actually do before buying preserves the option to go with the easily-overclockable Sandy Bridge if the IB physics make it a poor overclocker. In recent years we have come to expect Intel to sell us chips that can be clocked up to 50% higher than rated speeds--that's not a given with any new technology.

. More importantly, it's entirely possible that the new tri-gate matrix in the Ivy Bridge CPUs will be *less* overclockable than its 2D predecessor.

That's something I hadn't thought of, fantastic point, but it's only making my decision harder! Ugh, this is RIDICULOUSLY difficult -.-Buyer's remorse is the WORST feeling :@Aamir

Edited February 6, 201214 yr by Aamir

it's entirely possible that the new tri-gate matrix in the Ivy Bridge CPUs will be *less* overclockable than its 2D predecessor.

Depending on how you define "overclockable" (e.g. a lower spread between max and stock clocks), yes, that's entirely possible. But the stock clock could be a lot higher.With Tri-Gate the gate electric field sets up faster (it's in 3D!), gate current slew rate is also faster thus speeding switchtching time by 37%. Due to the 3D electrical field gate leakage current is also lower, so 50% less power is consumed. So Tri-Gate is better both in terms of higher clock and lower power, and this is before the benefits of the 22 nm fab shrink. (Source: Nature Science Magazine)In terms of CPU manufacturing, Intel is at an inflection point analogous to the switch from aluminum pathways (remember when a 75 MHz (yawn...) P4 was hot? It was so hot they built the B-744 FMC around it!) to the 5 GHz copper pathways of today. After all when has speed jumped 37% and power consumption decreased 50% at the same time? (usually power consumption goes way up when increasing speed.)So me, I think Tri-Gate on 22nm fab will be fantastic. After all, Intel spent 10 years developing Tri-Gate. Of course there may be reasons against, but I have yet to hear any.Cheers,- jahman.

Stock clocks are already published and are about the same as SB's jahman. That could or could not mean something.

After all when has speed jumped 37% and power consumption decreased 50% at the same time? (usually power consumption goes way up when increasing speed.)

I think it was 37% + power or 50% power consumption, not both.

Stock clocks are already published and are about the same as SB's jahman.

OK, we'll go with what Intel published, then. :Big Grin: That then means the OC margin should be higher.Of course Bob is also right, that issues inherent to the new circuitry and chip layout could adeversely affect OCability, but I would expect Intel to iron most of these out in pre-production.

I think it was 37% + power or 50% power consumption, not both.

The source says:

What is the benefit for computing?Intel will be incorporating Tri-Gate structures into its next generation of 22-nanometre transistors, slated to be production ready by the end of this year. The company says that, compared with its current 32-nanometre, 2D transistors, Tri-Gate transistors will be up to 37% faster. In general, the 3D design should allow transistors to be packed more closely to one another, and so make it possible to fit more into the same space.There are subtle advantages, too. According to Intel, the structures leak less current than standard 2D ones when not in use, which will improve the battery life of portable electronic devices such as laptops and smartphones. Moreover, when they are run at relatively low voltages, they should consume less than 50% of the power required by Intel's current transistors — which will be a boon for heavy-duty network servers.

Is it 37% faster and 50% less power?Is it 37% faster or 50% less power?And what are the numbers when combined with 22bn fab?Cheers,- jahman,