There's no way they were doing an autoland. The captain was aware of the fault with the radio altimeter [though not of some of the consequences of said failure]. Met conditions at the time of the accident did not require a CAT II/III approach so there was no way he was planning on carrying out an autoland with erroneous readings on one of the rad-alts....It just so happened the A/P was still engaged at the time of the stall...Capt. Rónán O Cadhain.

I stand corrected. Apparently this was a conclusion from someone which I picked up.If I understand correct: the AT is designed to retard on a RA signal, even when not performing an autoland? So reacting on info from a single channel?Bert Van Bulck

From my basic knowledge of the NG the A/T takes data from the captains RA if engaged not matter what type of approach.Channel B takes RA from the F/O side which was working in the AMS crash so remained engaged. Sounds a bit dodgy to me however I've never studied the NG

Just for reference at American there is no requirement to disengage auto throttles when the autopilot is off. Personally I prefer to disengage them when I disengage the autopilot just to keep sharp. It is amazing how easy it is for the skills to fade when you use the automation all the time. Besides I took this job because I like to fly planes.Oh and to add a note our company procedures are when the A/T is off you have to add half the steady state winds plus all the gust to VREF but you can just use the normal ref plus five knots if the A/T is engaged.

It's a 737 thing. It's not prohibited, but it's not recommended, either.

Not just 737, it's a possible issue with any aircraft with underslung engines. Because thrust changes give you pitch changes, autothrottle is not a good idea in manual flight. The pilot should initiate any thrust changes and be ready to compensate in pitch. British Airways used to have an option on their 747s such that AP disconnect also disconnected the A/T, in fact they may still use that system.IIRC only Airbus recommends keeping the A/T engaged in manual flight, but then the Airbus in Normal Law is not the same as a Boeing in manual.

It is amazing how easy it is for the skills to fade when you use the automation all the time.

Don't I know it, I'm particularly vigilant about keeping up my manual and raw data skills personally.

Oh and to add a note our company procedures are when the A/T is off you have to add half the steady state winds plus all the gust to VREF but you can just use the normal ref plus five knots if the A/T is engaged.

This I have to question you on, surly that could lead to fairly serious energy problems on short runways no? I mean, take winds at 20kts, gusting 35kts, you've added 25kts to your VREF based on the above rule, I mean, if VREF were say a fairly typical value of 138kts in the -800, then your VApp is gonna be 163kts?!?!?! That's asking for problems IMO. Is there an upper and lower limit to what you can add to the VREF?At EIN, we just do VREF +5 +1/2Gust and even at that I can feel like we're racing in at times...

IIRC only Airbus recommends keeping the A/T engaged in manual flight, but then the Airbus in Normal Law is not the same as a Boeing in manual.

Airbus doesn't recommend it, It just allows it. It's neither encouraged nor discouraged for you to take out the Auto-Thrust. It's pilots [or in most cases company] discretion. Capt. Rónán O Cadhain. A330.

Yeah I forgot to include part of the procedure. The max wind additive is 20 knots. That can still be a high approach speed. If I'm flying to a shorter runway I will usually just reengage the throttles around 1000 feet to meet the only +5 requirement.

Yeah I forgot to include part of the procedure. The max wind additive is 20 knots. That can still be a high approach speed. If I'm flying to a shorter runway I will usually just reengage the throttles around 1000 feet to meet the only +5 requirement.

That makes more sense, but it still seems a little counter intuitive to me. I know when I'm squeezing my bird into tight airstrips I like to manually work the thrust levers as I feel I have more control over the craft, I was the same way when I flew the B737 too. Or do you get issued deviations from SOP for certain airfields that are known to be a tight squeeze so you can manually work the T/L and still use VREF+5?Also, if there was no wind, do you still add the +5kts margin onto VREF for your Vapp?Ró

Yup all normal approaches are ref + 5.

Yup all normal approaches are ref + 5.

By normal, you mean no wind right?And any deviations for tight airfields?

Correct no wind. Well I guess up to 10 knots wouldn't change anything. There are no special provisons but we are supposed to check the landing distance for the conditions from our charts for every landing. Of course when it's windy there is usually a headwind component so that helps.