I don't get it. What interior lighting items are on the MEL (Master Minimum Equipment List)? Are you saying that they are all listed?

Yeah, that's the weird thing. I thought it would break them down, but the MEL is "Cockpit/Flight Deck/Flight Compartment and Instrument Lighting System" All the large lights fall under that. The Annuciator Lights and all the press to test stuff have their own MEL. I don't have an MMEL, just the company stuff.

Spin, I found the FAA MMEL on google... See my above post. I edited it since your last post.So I take it the interior cockpit lighting isn't too important, or lemme rephrase that... It's not important enough that the FAA mandates any particular procedure limitations to fly with one or even all of the lights inop. If you follow the MMEL word by word, one can legally fly a revenue flight with the flashlights onboard (If the flashlights are considered cockpit lighting) and all the other lights inop.Again... Pilot discretion.JB

Also many airlines use landing lights until FL180.

And for good reason, as there are still other aircraft flying around VFR and not talking to a controller up to 180

Spin, I found the FAA MMEL on google... See my above post. I edited it since your last post.So I take it the interior cockpit lighting isn't too important, or lemme rephrase that... It's not important enough that the FAA mandates any particular procedure limitations to fly with one or even all of the lights inop. If you follow the MMEL word by word, one can legally fly a revenue flight with the flashlights onboard (If the flashlights are considered cockpit lighting) and all the other lights inop.Again... Pilot discretion.JB

That's how I read it. If I have enough light, that is.

I wasn't talking about having to use the lights because you're going to fall asleep, although that brings up some very scary and questionable thoughts about your ability and safety.

I wouldn't judge until you've done some redeyes. I did over 50 all nighter legs last year alone and hundreds in my career. The bottom line is the human body is not designed to stay up all night. You can take afternoon naps and condition your body to stay up later but when you are in a dark cockpit in the middle of the night with the sound of the air passing over the exterior of the plane it is a recipe for putting the human to sleep. Turnig the dome light on helps a lot. If you can get the other guy to have a discussion that helps a lot too but some guys just don't want to talk. 5 Hour Energy helps too. The bottom line is you have to do something to help keep your mind up and alert.

I wouldn't judge until you've done some redeyes. I did over 50 all nighter legs last year alone and hundreds in my career. The bottom line is the human body is not designed to stay up all night. You can take afternoon naps and condition your body to stay up later but when you are in a dark cockpit in the middle of the night with the sound of the air passing over the exterior of the plane it is a recipe for putting the human to sleep. Turnig the dome light on helps a lot. If you can get the other guy to have a discussion that helps a lot too but some guys just don't want to talk. 5 Hour Energy helps too. The bottom line is you have to do something to help keep your mind up and alert.

Agreed. I don't do any commercial airline flying, but I've done enough at night to agree with you having experienced it. Even dialing up one of your displays is sometimes enough (the GPS in the smaller stuff, or one of the G1000 displays).When I worked at a flight school out in the Phoenix area, I worked the overnight shift (both sides of the overnight shift: 1700-0300, and 0300-1300). Even with 8, 9 or 10 hours sleep, I still found some nights difficult. Humans aren't meant to sleep during the day and be up overnight, no matter how hard you try to condition for it.

I wouldn't judge until you've done some redeyes. I did over 50 all nighter legs last year alone and hundreds in my career. The bottom line is the human body is not designed to stay up all night. You can take afternoon naps and condition your body to stay up later but when you are in a dark cockpit in the middle of the night with the sound of the air passing over the exterior of the plane it is a recipe for putting the human to sleep. Turnig the dome light on helps a lot. If you can get the other guy to have a discussion that helps a lot too but some guys just don't want to talk. 5 Hour Energy helps too. The bottom line is you have to do something to help keep your mind up and alert.

And automation doesn't make it any better. Some people believe that the increased automation helps to make room for better situational awareness. I disagree, I think more automation just gives one the option to be lazy. The busier you are durring a flight the sharper your forced to be. The more engaged in your job, the easier it is to stay awake. Lower the temperature in the flight deck so it's not so darn comfortable. The FAA just recently mandated freindlier terms to Flight Crew Scheduling and Turn Arounds. The next step is for the companies to step up and help the issue.