Hello All

 

I am pretty new to flight sims. I am totally new to VOR naviagation.

I have read through a few posts, such as the venerable The big VOR topic by J van E, and others. I've also looked through a few tutorials....basically I am begging tolerance if I am asking questions that I should have already figured out myself.

On the Maule...using the ILS....where is the altitude needle? On the RV-6 there is one needle indicating horizontal position from the VOR on the "wagon wheel", and one for vertical, thus allowing me to land on the correct glide slope.

I cannot find a vertical needle on the Maule's instruments. I don't know how to adjust my altitude on the way down.

 

Also, what proximity and position does a VOR begin to show up on my instruments, if I have the frequency set correctly? my CDI's only seem to spring to life when about 7 miles away, not further. Am I doing something wrong? I set the frequency, and hit the button to make the frequency active, as opposed to standby..then I wait. Am I missing something?

 

are there any good resources around, visual resources, for the maule and rv-6 cockpits? like a high res layout and labels/descriptions of everything?

 

PLEASE forgive me if I am asking too much, or I sound like a fool, or asking questions that have already been answered elsewhere.

There was a picture posted recently on another thread, but the Maule's glide slope indicator is provided by two bars on either side of the instrument. The bars just move up (if you drop below the slope) or drop down, if you are too high...

There was a picture posted recently on another thread, but the Maule's glide slope indicator is provided by two bars on either side of the instrument. The bars just move up (if you drop below the slope) or drop down, if you are too high...

 

This is the one: http://forum.avsim.n...rv-6a-vs-maule/

 

Here is an HSI (Horizontal Situation Indicator), the instrument used in the Maule, showing the Glideslope pointers...

 

 

are there any good resources around, visual resources, for the maule and rv-6 cockpits? like a high res layout and labels/descriptions of everything?

 

Not that I'm aware of, but that's a great idea. Maybe I can come up with something this weekend.

 

PLEASE forgive me if I am asking too much, or I sound like a fool, or asking questions that have already been answered elsewhere.

 

PLEASE keep asking questions. That's how we all learn.

 

Discussion about actual aviation topics are quite... refreshing... around here lately.

Ah. Thank you so much, both of you.

I think what I was missing is the the glidescope indicators, as they are called, refer specifically to the downwards trajectory. Or rather, perhaps not trajectory...more like vertical positioning in relation to the 3 degree "cone"

OK, point is, I get it now, I was totally missing those indicators.

Again, thanks for your patience and expertise.

I think what I was missing is the the glidescope indicators, as they are called, refer specifically to the <snip> vertical positioning in relation to the 3 degree "cone"

OK, point is, I get it now, I was totally missing those indicators.

 

Yes, exactly. If you are correctly positioned vertically in the middle of the ILS "cone" (at the proper altitude for your distance from the runway) you are "on the Glideslope." If you are correctly positioned horizontally in the middle of the ILS "cone" (lined up with the runway) you are "on the Localizer."

Also, what proximity and position does a VOR begin to show up on my instruments, if I have the frequency set correctly? my CDI's only seem to spring to life when about 7 miles away, not further.

 

Depends on your altitude, VORs are line of sight, and the general rule of thumb that I have seen is 1000ft. I have had VOR pretty far out at high alts, but they are intended to be shorter range than other nav aids.

 

There is a switch to test the VOR, flip it on and when you are getting signal you will hear the stations morse code.

I would also recommend turning the OBS knob until you center the needle when setting a VOR while en route. Then go ahead and set the desired radial.

 

This will let you know of the system is reading somewhat correctly and if it is on a bearing that you expect it to be.

I didn't think Flight even modeled terrain effects, but apparently it does... at least for ILS. I was doing a covert run into Lanai earlier and planned to intercept the ILS localizer a few miles off the coast. When I got into position, nothing showed up. I had the VOR dialed in on Nav 2, so I followed that in. I'm almost to the beach, staying low, and still no ILS. I lift the nose and the moment I climb above the level of the cliff-tops "beep beep beep" there's the ILS, now only a couple of miles away.

 

The nearby VOR station worked perfectly the entire time.

 

...

 

Discussion about actual aviation topics are quite... refreshing... around here lately.

 

+1

 

(sorry for not having anything to add about VORs)

I didn't think Flight even modeled terrain effects, but apparently it does... at least for ILS.

 

The nearby VOR station worked perfectly the entire time.

 

I frequently lose contact with a VOR when I am flying low behind mountains. It's very scary when that happens and you are flying dense fog... All the time you are thinking 'Come on, needle, MOVE!!!' It's great.

 

At the same time I sometimes get an unexpected contact with a far away VOR while I am still preparing the flight, so on the ground before take off. It's a bit of a mixed bag, so it seems, but terrain effects ARE there!

 

BTW You might have asked this in the 'big VOR' topic too! It's not 'my tutorial topic'! Everything that has been posted in this topic would have fitted perfectly over there too!

Some simple remarks on VOR classes:

- Terminal VOR - up to 25 NM and 12 000 ft. AGL

- Low Altitude VOR - up to 40 NM and 18 000 ft. AGL

- High Altitude VOR - inverted "Wedding Cake"

up to 40 NM and 14 500 ft. AGL

up to 100 NM and from 14 500 to 60 000 ft. AGL

up to 130 NM and from 18 000 to 45 000 ft. AGL

 

Best regards.

Luis

Wow, I am enjoying navigating almost more than flying. Perhaps more.

 

After going through all this new info, I am now finding that I was confused about the difference between a VOR station and an ILS station. The ILS station puts out both horizontal and vertical 'wagon wheels' of directional info, hence you will have a glidescope reading for use in landing/approaches. VOR stations only output a horizontal, and therefore only let you know what direction you are in in relation to the station, so two of these reading should give you an idea of where you are on a map. (where the 2 radials converge)

It makes me think I should be using a paper map of hawaii in order to plot courses.

Is it possible to get an active and accurate CDI needle but a dead glidescope indicator? I could have sworn that happened to me last night, I must have been doing something wrong. In the RV-6, the vertical needle was active and directing me towards the ILS, but the horzontal needle was stuck dead center and wouldn't move.

BTW, J van E, I've actually printed out your post along with your visuals, it's that informative.

The ILS is a short range system with a narrow coverage off one end of a runway. It looks a little like a wedge raised into the sky at a slight angle.

 

IIRC, the beam is about 4 degrees wide.

I see. So the ILS is inherently much shorter range than a VOR station, I'm sure becuase it's meant to guide approaches and not straight on navigation over great distances.

This is in addition to including glidescope (correct altitude declination) information.

Also, I see what you mean in testing the needles' activity using the OBS knob, just to make sure it's alive before I head towards a desired radial.

 

As always, apologies for the questions on what I am sure are the basics.

Wow, I am enjoying navigating almost more than flying. Perhaps more.

 

Navigation is a nice, fun brain-exercise.

 

After going through all this new info, I am now finding that I was confused about the difference between a VOR station and an ILS station. The ILS station puts out both horizontal and vertical 'wagon wheels' of directional info, hence you will have a glidescope reading for use in landing/approaches. VOR stations only output a horizontal, and therefore only let you know what direction you are in in relation to the station, so two of these reading should give you an idea of where you are on a map. (where the 2 radials converge)

 

You've got it pretty much sorted out, yeah. In short, A VOR station broadcasts a 360 degree signal that can tell you exactly what direction you are away from the station (the radial you are on) horizontally. ILS broadcasts a cone projecting upward at an angle from the end of the runway, and tells you how close you are to the center of the cone in both horizontal (the Localizer) and vertical (Glideslope) directions. If you stay in the middle of the cone (needles centered), you should be lined up for a perfect approach and landing.

 

Note that it is properly Glideslope, not Glidescope. Yes, you will see the second version used somewhat commonly, but it is incorrect.

 

In aircraft with multiple VOR systems, VOR-1 is usually the only one capable of receiving Glideslope information.

 

VOR/DME stations (all of the Hawaii VORs in Flight) also provide for Distance Measuring Equipment that gives you a range and closure speed to the VOR station. DME is shown at the bottom of the radio stack, and has a button to switch it between the VOR-1 and VOR-2 radios.

 

It makes me think I should be using a paper map of hawaii in order to plot courses.

 

That's what I do. A real paper sectional chart for low-altitude VFR navigation should cost less than $10. You may be able to get one for free if you talk to real pilots that may have flown in Hawaii... the charts expire and have to be replaced frequently due to real-world changes that won't impact flight sims. You can always make any changes you do need with a pen. I'm using one that's more than a decade old and it's perfectly fine for Flight.

 

Here's one source, but I haven't price-compared: http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/chart/FAA_VFR_Sectional_Charts.asp

 

Is it possible to get an active and accurate CDI needle but a dead glidescope indicator? I could have sworn that happened to me last night, I must have been doing something wrong. In the RV-6, the vertical needle was active and directing me towards the ILS, but the horzontal needle was stuck dead center and wouldn't move.

 

Are you sure you were on an ILS frequency and not just a VOR frequency?