Radar Contact and the PMDG NGX

[GAJ52 39]

Hi

 

I'm having a few problems with the above combination.

 

I frequently find RC, during the descent leaves you quite high say 9000ft close to the airfield, then brings you down to final approach altitude say 3000 or 3500ft requiring full Spoilers to get down. On one occasion into Cardiff I even had to lower the gear early to get below the glide slope.

 

One other problem is being vectored by Approach from Base to the the runway QDM. I am normally at about 180 kts at this point and often told to turn too late, overshooting the Localiser.

 

As the 738 NGX is not the easiest aircraft to slow down or descend is there anything I can do with RC to allow a more leisurely approach without throwing all the anchors out at once.

 

Thanks, Glen

[jd 52]

if you can duplicate the problem, make a log, and send it to me. i'll explain what is going on.

 

if you are told to join the localizer, as soon as the plane crosses the glideslope, follow the glideslope.

 

sometimes this happens when you are in a near straight end approach. you have to extrapolate where that glideslope is, before you are receiving the glideslope..

 

jd

[GAJ52 39]

Thanks JD

 

Its not too hard to replicate, so I'll send you a log

 

Glen

[ronzie 21]

EGHH in RC has an MSA off 1187. The airport elevation is about 200 feet MSL. RC uses an averaging algorithm of the quad areas surrounding the airport ans is not direction sensitive.

 

If you get the airport charts (free from Eurocontrol but requires registration) you can look at the charted approaches, SIDs, STARs, etc. to see what altitudes are proper.

 

If you wish to navigate on your own after approach assigns you a runway and starts vectoring just short of 40 nm out, after you ack the first vector you can request an IAP approach and engage or use as a guide your approach database in your FMC. If you use your FMC STAR you must insure your waypoints up to 40 nm from approach are in sync with the .pln sent to RC. For a runway dependent STAR just include the common waypoints for the arrival runway in the plan sent to RC. There is another topic about this.

 

For flexibility further out from destination after you meet the crossing restriction 40 nm out choose the NOTAMS option on the RC controller tab before you start RC. NOTAMS allows altitude flexibility where RC becomes advisory and you can deviate from altitudes without the controller nagging you about your assigned altitude.

 

Here is my source for Eurozone charts:

 

http://ead-website.ead-it.com/publicuser/public/pu/login.jsp

 

If you need instructions I'll get into more depth later as I have to rush out.

[norman s 8]

Glen,

 

Are you using a Flight Planner or are you just putting a route into the FMC?

 

Do not use the in built flight planner within FSX as it is just not good enough!

 

I use the 737NG and have had no trouble with my descent pattern in order to intercept the ILS.I have just landed at Leeds Bradford.

 

Can you post your full route and aircraft set up and I will check it out for you.

 

Many RC user fly this aircraft and problems are seldom seen with this combination

[ronzie 21]

In my first reply that's EGFF for Cardiff airport, not EGHH.

 

Charts show a descending race track pattern outbound from the Cardiff NDB starting at 3,000 at the NDB. The STAR charts mention descent planning of FL70 at 10 nm out from the NDB and then descending further.

 

I use the PMDG B737NG in FS9 and don't usually have any problems either. I plan on entering base at 180 kn and slowing on base adding flaps a few notches to slow and help in turning to the intercept.

 

The MSA is shown on the controller page and is 1000 feet below the altutude RC expects for merging with the GS when present and that is 2200 on the charts (1187 rounded to 1200 plus 1,000) for the GS merge.

 

The chart also has this note:

NOTE 1 Subject to ATC approval, aircraft inbound to NDB(L) CDF and receiving DME I-CWA may descend to 3000 after passing I-CWA DME 10.

 

What I do is load the ILS data on the FMC so the extended center line is on the nav display. This lets me control aircraft speed slowing as needed giving me situational awareness for intercept required.

 

Be sure you also have the proper aircraft class on RC's aircraft tab as it is used for some RC planning.

 

RC does not use teardrop or racetrack procedures but you can follow them if you wish by using NOTAMS or an IAP. RC uses a standard rectangular pattern right or left starting on downwind, base, or straight in depending on your arrival direction. In one of the extended menus when you are in the airport pattern there is a selection to shorten downwind which was added for slower aircraft to avoid a lengthy approach on final.

[GAJ52 39]

Norman, Ron

 

Many thanks for helping me with this problem, unfortunately mywife is home today so my time on FSX is very limited.

 

Basically I use Gatwick (EGKK) to Cardiff (EGFF) as a practise flight as its nice and short. My cruise altitude is FL160 and the route is Kenet SID out of Gatwick to KENET DCT ABDAK DCT BRI DCT CDF. I never actually fly to the CDF ndb as I allow RC to vector me to whichever approach Rwy 12 or 30.

 

So I can get down quickly I use Level Change and not VNav. I'm very happy flying the approach, I've done it for years using real world charts from NATS-UK and as I said at the beginning I slow to 180kts to intercept the LOC with I believe is fairly normal.

 

My problem is RC tries to rush the approach and doesn't give the NGX enough time to descend even when using Level Change mode.

 

I will try this again and give point by point account of what RC is doing regarding altitudes during the approach.

 

Glen

[ronzie 21]

Nothing can be changed in RC. Use the NOTAMS option to descend to lower altitudes ahead of time if you must or just slow down. With NOTAMS you can start your turn earlier if you wish from base to the intercept vector and RC will not comment. Take advantage of loading the ILS and ILS approach if into your FMC just to provide visual guides on your navigation display for situational awareness.