Loved the review on main page (Blackbox A320) but...

[CaptCraig 226]

http://forum.avsim.net/page/index.html/_/reviews/airbus-extreme-prologue-r562

 

Loved the review, but I'm assuming you've never flown the Wilco airbus product?

 

It's not the fact that Blackbox is releasing an unfinished product for us to buy with a promise of finishing it that disturbs me, it's the fact that you're review was so good in pointing out their flaws that disturbs me. No pax or fuel loader? Even Wilco has one. No cold or dark mode? "FS9 like" VC?

 

No thanks. I'll wait for the FSLabs machine. If it's anything like their concord people rave about it will be a thing of beauty.

 

Thank you, Sir for the great review.

[ViperXBR 32]

So far the BBS version, only about half done, is light years better then the POS Wilco garbage out there. Supposedly the Wilco is a completed product yet it's far from done and full of bugs and they've dropped any further development to resolve these issues. At least BBS has stated this is the "Prologue", meaning preview version and will continue to build upon it and support it with passion! Definitely not like Wilco!

 

I have both and since installing BBS, I've recently uninstalled the Wilco version.

[CaptCraig 226]

I have both and since installing BBS, I've recently uninstalled the Wilco version.

 

This is awesome info and may have changed my mind. Still I think I'll wait for FSLabs.

 

Really? BBS is better than Wilco already? Hmm...I'm torn

[ViperXBR 32]

It has it's quirks BUT, like I said previously, it is only half done. It can only get better! And it's far better than Wilco! FMC works very well. The FBW is great. And it's all 3D visual in the VC, built for FSX from the ground up, unlike Wilco which was an FS9 port.

 

You have to also remember BBS consists of only 2 developers. That's it. This is their signature product, their bread and butter. Everything rests on the success of this add-on. They want it to succeed and I believe them.

 

IMHO, Stay away from Wilco and save your money!

[CaptCraig 226]

IMHO, Stay away from Wilco and save your money!

 

I had a bad experience with Wilco customer support. In the end it was my fault they said. No it wasn't. The A330 just doesn't work properly. FLEX TO modes wouldn't work. I hope to never have to deal with them again. Until now I thought it was the best bus out there.

[sp85 6]

Hi all, I think I may share some of my impression on the BBS Bus (I just bought its v0.6, released on 24 Dec 2012), and yes I flew a lot the wilco (nonEvo or Evo) in FS9...

1) The model: They shows great improvement over previous version (i compared with photos I have of the previous version). Yes, still some improvement (like my request on their facebook I would like a more details/better color in the landing gear, some finish here and there), but I spend most time in the VC, I am satisfied at the moment . They do add some new models as well (e.g. the A318). The texture is very HD, clear, included liveries look quite nice to me

2) The VC: I pretty love it, not found it cartoonish like some others. More importantly it light on the FPS for me. Texture are very crisp, clear, the environment is believable to me . I noticed some areas for them to check and improve (like the overall color whether it is more purple-ish or blue/greenish etc...) but I still love it. We have some animation like the drawer (do not know what is the official name haha), the jumpseat. The remaining area (behind the pilot seats) of the VC needs improvement in terms of additional details, but because I rarely look that way, so I honestly dont care that much

3) The system: Ok you can start cold and dark, the APU implemented quite nice, the ignition, engine start follows the book, some system/ECAM pages are there, some left for following upgrade.

The FMGC let you key in INIT page (no wind at the moment, for later upgrade), the F-PLAN with SID and STAR (I currently flew only from VVTS-VVDN), you key in waypoint direct to or via airway, you got the PERF entering FLX temp, V1, V2, VR (right click for auto-calculation like on the wilco) down to APPR phase will QNH entering, Vapp, MDH, or DH etc...

Autoflight mode I havent checked all, mostly used NAV and managed mode, but seems remaining mode like HDG, V/S, EXPED, OP CLIMB/DES implemented etc...

 

The good thing I like most about the system as of now is their reliability of the managed mode, especially descend, comply with constraint speed/alt, and the descend rate is very well managed (no death-plunge or disco dancing like in the wilco). It guide me down nicely to decel point and into approach phase. In my 2 flights, ILS/GS captured and maintained nicely and stable, no ding-dong at all.

 

The overall feel is the system is very stable, not sudden movement that coming out of nowhere with no reasons. I am testing the protection mode and checking with the team of my founding. Will report when I am on the same page with the dev team first .

 

Yes, some bugs found by the users already posted on the support forum and BBS face, but because it is still v0.6 (Prolouge they call), I am not surprised. The point is the aircraft is definitely very "flyable" and fun to fly at the current v0.6

 

4) My thought on the BBS team:

I havent use their support ticket, because what, I have no trouble from downloading and installing this thing. I jumped in, did some throttle calibration, did 2 flights from VVTS-VVDN without any CTD, and the experience is, to be honest, far away better then wilco, both visually and the handling, especially vertical profile. So I guess BBS is serious about releasing their product (professionalism?). I read some of the support tickets are missed which sometimes can be annoyed, but I believe they are just mere accidents (but eventually they were addressed?), and also BBS is a 2 men team, not a conglomerate or something.

 

So I bought BBS bus but not the extended why (and I am not saying the Xtended is good or bad, their visual model and VC looks really good):

I bought the idea of going the extreme, I like as many systems implemented correctly as possible. and I personally believe BBS can do that eventually (their track record with PSS, and their really stable V0.6 at the moment). Anyway, I have a very flyable, stable and fun bus with this v0.6, so far happy with my decision. I like being on the edge to see what they have in the next upgrade as well .

 

Constructive comments are welcome. And I am not related to BBS in anyway except I am just a happy customer. I found few articles regarding the BBS bus here, so I just want to share my thought. Cheers and happy coming new year .

 

Oh, forgot to mention, I may consider FSLab as well when their bus is finanly out if it is indeed great. I can end up support both BBS and FSLab as well haha. But for now I will fly BBS Bus and chipping in my comments for the team there.

[CaptCraig 226]

Nice review. I tried out the v.6 and it's way better then the v.54. Some ways better than Extended, but I still fly the Aerosoft for now. So many busses coming out!

[Reason 20]

I fly AXE. I would rate 9/10 if the bugs weren't that overwhelming. But it is not complete yet, they just released hotfix '12' recently. Flyable but I cant enjoy it 100% for the time being.

 

I'd love to see BBS complete their work.

[Guest Mik75]

The BBS v0.61 is very flyable, and there are various points that are superior, comapred to the AXE.

The A/P is still a little sloppy, but the FBW is really good and the performance and VNAV are the best in any Airbus release so far. Their support is really bad, but I am still looking forward to the next version, 0.7.

[Reason 20]

thanks Michael. have they listed the changes/fixes in the next 0.7? How is the VNAV, especially descent rate? if it's - wilco or the current axe - like descent behavior, it is just another unfinished bus.

[sp85 6]

Hi Wisnu

Regarding the VNAV (though I think you meant managed descend), here is my thought.

The good: 1) overall quite good, especially below FL2x, 2) quite smooth in adjusting the pitch attitude in most of the times (the trick is to push for managed descend approximately 5+ miles before TOD to avoid aggressive initial descend) 2) complies to altitude constraint

Things need to improve: 1) a known issue of when the VDEV is more than 500 feet below the vertical profile, the Bus tends to galloping a bit up and down around +/- 1 degree (though little but somehow still noticeable), but after it adjusts itself to make the VDEV is less than 500 feet below vertical profile, everything goes pretty again. BBS team told us that they are revamping this managed descend with new logic to make it even better.

So I think the managed descend mode in pretty good at this stage, and I think it will be even better with next updates... Hope it helps.

[Guest Mik75]

[Reason 20]

Hi Wisnu

Regarding the VNAV (though I think you meant managed descend), here is my thought.

The good: 1) overall quite good, especially below FL2x, 2) quite smooth in adjusting the pitch attitude in most of the times (the trick is to push for managed descend approximately 5+ miles before TOD to avoid aggressive initial descend) 2) complies to altitude constraint

Things need to improve: 1) a known issue of when the VDEV is more than 500 feet below the vertical profile, the Bus tends to galloping a bit up and down around +/- 1 degree (though little but somehow still noticeable), but after it adjusts itself to make the VDEV is less than 500 feet below vertical profile, everything goes pretty again. BBS team told us that they are revamping this managed descend with new logic to make it even better.

So I think the managed descend mode in pretty good at this stage, and I think it will be even better with next updates... Hope it helps.

I couldn't have said it better!

By pressing the ALT knob on the FCU a few miles before T/D, you really get a good managed descent, defenitely the best available so far. And, based on my experience in two A320 full flight simulator sessions at Lufthansa Flight Training Center, BBS's hand flying characteristics are top notch, not too sensitive and quite stable after releasing the stick. These two points are better than in any other abailable competitor.

 

Thanks for the information. yes what I meant was managed descent. I just wanna make sure in the middle of descent the v/s is not going crazy although it appeared to be accurate at the early phase.

 

I'll wait for the 0.7's changes list/fixed.

[kenz 33]

no wind at the moment, for later upgrade

 

is that for sure ?

I used to fly wilco 330 and lack of wind aloft in FMGC is a real problem for long haul flights

 

what about weather radar ?

lack of weather radar is a NO GO condition for me

 

Do BBS still have the +/- trick to chang thrust lever position ? (i personally prefere the wilco for that)

 

 

I remember that PSS Airbus was my first "hardcore" for me and it was a real pleasure to discover it at the time, it made me discover a whole new world of procedures ,checks, flows, perf calculation etc.. ^_^

 

(special mention to DF737 for the memory part of my post :rolleyes: )

[sp85 6]

Thanks for the information. yes what I meant was managed descent. I just wanna make sure in the middle of descent the v/s is not going crazy although it appeared to be accurate at the early phase.

 

I'll wait for the 0.7's changes list/fixed.

I flew Wilco one back in the days of FS9 and experienced v/s going crazy during "managed descend". For this BBS I assure there is no such thing, apart from the small problem one issue I said in previous post, it is quite smooth indeed. And I also wait for the change/fix list in version 0.7. Nervously excitingly waiting .