no FS2004 patch ?

[Guest wathomas777]

Greg,I doubt that you or I will ever agree on this subject.If anyone is "splitting hairs" it is you, that by bringing up three fairly small issues compared to the entire scope of this product, you feel that Microsoft has not fulfilled their "obligation" to the public.This is a GAME. I don't care how many simmers use this to practice real life procedures, or how many addons add realism to the product, it is and has always been an entertainment title. By providing an entertainment title, Microsoft HAS in fact fulfilled it's obligation to you by providing you with entertainment. It has also done so at a price point per hour much cheaper than a video rental at the local Blockbuster. If you have spent over 25 hours enjoying this title, (which I am sure you have), you have received entertainment from it at approx $2.00 an hour. There is very little things in this world that can entertain you for that price.If you are like me, you have spent well over 100 hours with this title, which brings the entertainment value to approx .50 an hour. I am sorry that you find these issues so upsetting to you, but to say that Flight Simulator has not "fullfilled" it's obligation is hogwash. They created a product that's sole purpose was to provide you with entertainment, and from what I have read, they have done so.This product has never been produced, manufactured, or even remotely intended for actual simulation of real world conditions to the fidelity required to meet FAA regulations regarding simulation. Elite Simulations and other companies provide products for this particular purpose at a cost much greater than that of MSFS.Microsoft never promised me a completely error free product. There are issues with this game, similar to issues I have with other games. The question is not whether or not autogen, weather, or a myriad of other issues such as AI traffic behavior, or ATC funtions flawlessly. The question is, have I been entertained. And even you have to admit that the answer to that question is an overwhelming yes.We are currently at logger heads, and again, I am so sorry that you feel Microsoft's current release does not fully meet your expectations. However, for a majority of us here it does. Instead of generalizing a statement like Microsoft did not fulfill it's obligations to it's customers, say instead that they did not fulfill it's obligations to YOU. Whether or not your expectation of the product can be viewed as being in the least bit reasonable is a debate that we will save for another day.For me, Microsoft has fulfilled it's obligations beyond my wildest imaginations, especially considering what I was flying 15 years ago on a computer. And on that note, I bid you a good day, and hope Microsoft's next release can provide you some relief.

[Guest SoarPics]

Will,"I doubt that you or I will ever agree on this subject."We finally agree on something... and that's a start! :-) I've presented my arguements to you not to whine about MS or bash you presonally for your views. Nor do I expect my arguements to sway the developers into fixing what's broke (hopefully they'll work on the above mentioned problems for the next release). Quite the contrary... I respect your right to your views despite not agreeing with them. Buy please keep in mind that there are some of FS9's buyer's who feel they didn't get what they were told they would get upon spending their hard earned money. For you to say anyone who isn't totally happy with the product because there are some things broke in it is unfair. Is it useable... yes, with compromises not expected at time of purchase. Is it entertaining... yes, with compromises not expected at time of purchase. Does it work as advertised before we bought it... nope!So there are some problems with it, and it is quite frustrating for many that the developers refuse to address those failings. In some cases, even, they refuse to ackowledge the problems. Keep in mind here that I'm not one of those folks who is losing sleep over broken features nor am I calling MS names because of some ridiculous expectations weren't met. All I'm concerned about is the consumer getting what they were told to expect before buying. Some folks feel just as you would if the restaurant served you that steak uncooked. Yeah, you got your steak but can you enjoy it?Been fun (really) and take care,Greg

[turner112 52]

Hi Tom - "...when the MSFS team promised anything at all, except maybe a schedule for release that was vetted by every lawyer that MS has."What I'm alluding to is a contractual obligation that included features work as they are supposed to, and one that Microsoft agrees to when accepting payment. I would have a hard time, for example, if I bought a cheeseburger, fries, and a coke - and found out after paying that, for reasons that I can't understand, if I used -ketchup- on my burger and had -extra ice- in my coke, I could only eat half of my fries.I certainly don't expect that everything works out of the box - especially on a less-than-optimal system - but if overcast really isn't working as it's supposed to, and being that it seems like it's a fundamental ingredient to flying, it should be fixed. I don't know what the "seasonal CTD" is that people are talking about though.[edit: I'd be interested in the fine print of the warranty if anyone can find something related to this discussion]Cheers,Andrew

[LAdamson 240]

>Now, don't no one ruin it!!!! :)I feel like ruining it.....................I can only take so much of comparing FS9 to cooked or uncooked steak dinners, whether it's 54.95 or 5 million.............What pathetic reasoning & conclusions...L.Adamson

[Guest SoarPics]

"I feel like ruining it.....................I can only take so much of comparing FS9 to cooked or uncooked steak dinners, whether it's 54.95 or 5 million.............What pathetic reasoning & conclusions..."No one is holding a gun to your head to read it (or partake in the discussion). You're entitled to your opinions... too bad you can't show others the same respect.Don't you have an airplane to build?Greg

[LAdamson 240]

>Don't you have an airplane to build?>And that's just it......When it comes to real airplane building, or real flying, it can be gratifying or complete delusion. Too many rules & retrictions , rediculous expenses, and out of pocket airworthiness directives. Not to mention attempting to get a hangar, rising hangar cost's, as well as insurance.But then I hit these forums, and see request's & "demands" for the perfect virtual world for under sixty bucks.................. and feel like throwing up!And that's how I feel about the subject... :)L.Adamson

[Geofa 108]

Well stated...(as usual)I still know no better value in life than this sim-even with its' warts.How many times this week has anyone else paid more than the cost of this sim for something and gotten much less in value?In my case probably 20 times this week alone-but then I was traveling on the road...normally probably just 10 x :-)http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[Guest SoarPics]

"and see request's & "demands" for the perfect virtual world for under sixty bucks"I just re-read this entire thread... and not once did anybody say they expected "the perfect virtual world for under sixty bucks" Only you made that statement.And Geof... value is a matter of perception. Each has his/her own perception.All anybody here has asked for is what they were told they were getting before buying the product. Simple as that.Greg

[Guest LLgaz]

Yep.....that's the age old argument. "We who complain do so because we want a perfect world". "We should just shut up and accept things as they are.""None of this is Microsoft's fault.""We are too self important""So you get a CTD every now and again, or even all the time. Big deal.""So the wind changes are severe. Just don't use real weather"And here's the latest and most original:"Microsoft leaves a few bugs in there to keep people buying the next version".:-jumpy :-jumpy I know these threads are a lost cause simply because its obvious that Microsoft will never patch FS9. And based on some of the arguments above, a lot of these people think that Microsoft should never ever patch any version of FS again. No matter how severe the bug, they will always have some sort of argument against a patch. And if said arguments fall apart, then.....bugs are good because they keep us buying the next version....the ultimate defense. Microsoft, I could understand. But isn't it just amazing that actual customers would think like that??

[Brian Doney 127]

Greg,Can't say that I disagree with you, because I don't, but, I don't entirely agree either. FS isn't perfect, never will be. 2006 will have flaws. Maybe those flaws will matter more to me and less to you next time, and I'll be in your shoes, I dunno. Flaws are not intentional. They exist because there was not the time, resource, or ability to correct them.Weigh it.Is there anything that is just totally destroying any enjoyment you might get out of the sim ? If the answer is no, and you do enjoy it, then there, right there, is where Microsoft has thier success. They have delivered exactly what they intended to deliver.If, on the other hand, the answer is yes, these few issues you have with the sim really just ruin it for ya, well, maybe it's time to move on to a new hobby, because you probably will not find any enjoyment in future versions, either. I do not mean that as a "brush off", but quite sincerely.At this point, I really just don't think it's as big a deal as you're making it out to be, no offense intended. All of us, I'm certain, have things we'd like to be different/fixed/added/patched, and ya know what, that doesn't just apply to FS, you can be sure. You either accept FS for what it is, limitations, errors, oversights and all, or, you do not. This thread is just beating a dead horse, and in my opinion, is the wrong place for you to voice these concerns, about issues that all of us are aware of, and most of us have been willing to accept. Don't really know what else to say, Greg.

[JimmiG 244]

"This thread is just beating a dead horse, and in my opinion, is the wrong place for you to voice these concerns, about issues that all of us are aware of, and most of us have been willing to accept. "I think most of us do "accept" FS9 the way it is, but why settle for an "acceptable" sim when there are clearly issues, bugs, that if fixed would make the sim even better? It's interesting but the mentality of flightsimmers is completely different from other "gamers" (you'll excuse me if I use that term :) ). Users of other games not only demand a patch when they find a flaw in the game, the *expect* one. Because that's how the gaming industry works nowadays. There simply aren't enough resources "in-house" or through limited beta test groups to discover all bugs and flaws. This is solved through patches and I don't think I have one single "version 1.00" game on my harddrive other than FS9.

[Brian Doney 127]

Jimmi,I agree, to a point, as I said earlier.I have two questions for you.How many "other" games on your hard drive have enjoyed 20 years of life ? How many "other" games on your hard drive are in their 9th version ?You don't have revison 1.00 of FS9, you have version 9 of Microsoft Flight Simulator.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Once again we have succeeded in beating this poor horse to death. Only this time, we haven't disposed of it quickly enough I am afraid. Anyone for slightly rancid horse meat burgers? Locking it up!