NEW! POSKY/SkySpirit-PSS Boeing 777-200ER Merge Packages!

[Mike777 163]

looks like a very nice work so I wanted to fly it today. But after departure I had some bumping of the plane letting it going up and down, up and down all the way towards my final flight level.

 

 

Hey everyone!

 

Just like to update you on anything ive been doing on the merge. Currently i have reduced the MOI pitch and roll values by 7,500,000 (7.5 million) and it's working great! I didn't have a rocking problem to begin with but i changed the 2 values anyway and it's working well :biggrin: .Bring both values down even if you only had a problem with 1 parameter (ie if you only had a problem with roll, still bring both down). This is so the values are closer to the calculated values which were calculated using the equation in the FS2004 container SDK.

 

So try it out guys! And tell us how it goes! ^_^

 

Nandan.

 

Hi, Clocki,

 

The fix for this, as above, is from earlier in this thread.  It involves changing the MOI numbers in the aircraft.cfg file.  The fix should work! 

 

Mike

[clocki 2]

But when changing this, how can load my aircraft?

 

Actual I'm using the lines from the PSS load manager via copy&paste. I read this post and the fix with chaning the MOI.

 

My actual weight lines in the aircraft.cfg:

[weight_and_balance]

// ACM V2.5
max_gross_weight = 766800
empty_weight = 320000
reference_datum_position = 0, 0, 0
empty_weight_CG_position = 0, 0, 0
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 17481382
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 7506555
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 18309769
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 0
max_number_of_stations = 14

station_load.0 = 360, 97, 0, 4.12,        Cockpit Crew
station_load.1 = 0, 70, 0, 0,        Technical Crew

station_load.2 = 19500, 30, 0, 0,        Pallets 1st Qtr
station_load.3 = 19500, 10, 0, 0,        Pallets 2st Qtr
station_load.4 = 19500, -10, 0, 0,        Pallets 3rd Qtr
station_load.5 = 6500, -30, 0, 0,        Pallets 4th Qtr

station_load.6 = 6500, 40, 0, 0,        Containers P. 1
station_load.7 = 6500, 10, 0, 0,        Containers P. 2
station_load.8 = 6500, -25, 0, 0,        Containers P. 3
station_load.9 = 0, -65, 0, 0,        Containers P. 4 (BGGE)
station_load.10 = 3166, -70, 0, 0,        Bulk Cargo P. 5 (BULK)

station_load.11 = 3, 0, 0, 0,        Meals
station_load.12 = 139, 0, 0, 0,        Potable Water
station_load.13 = 20, 0, 0, 0,        Lav Service

[Mike777 163]

But when changing this, how can load my aircraft?

 

Actual I'm using the lines from the PSS load manager via copy&paste. I read this post and the fix with chaning the MOI.

 

I'm not clear as to which FDE (Aircraft.cfg/air file combination) you started off with.  Nandan and his friend created their own 200ER fde; that is the one that needs the above changes to Empty_Weight_Pitch and Empty_Weight_Roll MOI numbers. 

 

Your above numbers look like they were all copied from the PSS aircraft.cfg file, as the max gross weight is for a 200LR.  A 200ER is going to be around 650000 or so. The pitching you are describing is a known problem with Nandan's FDE (for 200ER) that his above changes have fixed for others.  

 

Assuming you have Nandan's original FDE, start with that.  Change the MOI numbers as described in his post above.  See if that works OK. Then you can try copying in the station load entries from the PSS, but do NOT copy in the moi or weight numbers.  They are not for a 200ER. 

 

Mike

[clocki 2]

Thanks Mike I will simply take the aircraft.cfg from the download and then change the MOI described.

 

But how to change the load then? Via the FS? But how can I get then a CG value?

 

The above was the reason for adding the weight lines from PSS to have a ZFW etc.

 

EDIT:

It looks now like this and I will make a testflight soon

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight = 656000
empty_weight = 314000
reference_datum_position = 0, 0, 0
empty_weight_CG_position = 0, 0, 0
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 7500000
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 7500000
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 9421453
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 0
max_number_of_stations = 7

station_load.0= "0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, Payload"

[Mike777 163]

 

 

It looks now like this and I will make a testflight soon

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight = 656000
empty_weight = 314000
reference_datum_position = 0, 0, 0
empty_weight_CG_position = 0, 0, 0
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 15500000//7500000 <<CHANGED
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 9500000 //7500000 <<CHANGED
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 9421453
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 0
max_number_of_stations = 7

 

I see what you are trying to do with the station loads from the original PSS.  I have to admit that with these merges, I don't use the CG, and simply guess the trim -- if the plane is lightly loaded, @ 4-5, if heavily loaded 6-7.  I don't know if you will get accurate CG readings using the PSS loader, given the different weights. 

 

Also curious to know how you will get the PSS load manager to point to this aircraft.cfg file -- it seems to point only at the standard PSS 200LR, 300ER, or 200F.  

 

After you get the merged aircraft working, you could put back in the PSS station loads but leave all the weights & MOIs alone.  You could then use the loader with the same pax, cargo and fuel, then manually enter the fuel, pax, & cargo numbers using FS9.  Use the CG from the loader.  But again the CG from the loader may not be very accurate since the loader is designed around the 200LR, F or 300ER.  I haven't found the pitch trim to be super critical.

 

The MOI numbers you entered are not quite correct.  You need to take the original numbers and subtract 7,500,000 from both Pitch and Roll MOIs.  So I get for pitch MOI 23000000 - 7500000 = 15500000.  For Roll MOI I get 9500000. (I have Nandan's original PW & RR FDEs).  I've put the correct numbers in above.

 

Let me know how it works!

 

Mike

One other thing -- Nandan's FDE comes with zero pax and cargo weight, so it will be really light unless you add payload.

 

Mike

[ViperPilot 81]

Mike,

 

First off, thanks for your info regarding the 300ER. Since I'm just starting out flying big iron, and having discovered both POSKY and Skyspirit, the information in this thread has been most helpful. I've just been using the Panel provided with the Model, and it works just fine for me right now as I get accustomed to its flying habits.

 

My question to you is... are there any other tips or things that a newbie should be aware of, both with specific Skyspirit models or in general,  when starting out with big iron? Are there any freeware Panels you might suggest?

 

Right now I just have two models; the 767-300ER and the 777-300ER.

 

Thanks again!

 

Alan   

[clocki 2]

The problem still exists...actual flying with the B772 RR of Kenya towards Nairobi and the FD is still jumping around. It started around FL140 and did not stop till now (passing FL300).

 

I changed the MOI as said. After loading the plane I entered a payload of 45700kg which gave me a ZFW of around 183.7kg

 

On my first flight whith this merge after a while the engine started to spool up/down which caused the problem to keep the corr speed.

 

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight = 656000
empty_weight = 314000
reference_datum_position = 0, 0, 0
empty_weight_CG_position = 0, 0, 0
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 15500000
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 9500000
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 9421453
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 0
max_number_of_stations = 7

station_load.0= "0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, Payload"

 

EDIT:

I used V/S for my stepclimb instead of VNAV so it seems the problem only occurs with VNAV

[Mike777 163]

 

 

On my first flight whith this merge after a while the engine started to spool up/down which caused the problem to keep the corr speed.

 

Engine fluctuation with this setup is new to me.  Are you using the air file that came with his download?  The wrong air file can create engine fluctuations as well as VNAV problems. Also, the wrong air file WILL cause the autothrottle to malfunction. The correct one is "Boeing 777-200ER Rolls Royce-Trent 892.air" dated 8/12/2010, 10:52 pm (sometimes the hour varies) 8,959 bytes. 

 

 

 

I changed the MOI as said. After loading the plane I entered a payload of 45700kg which gave me a ZFW of around 183.7kg

 

The MOI numbers look correct.  However maybe the plane is a bit heavily loaded.  I work in pounds, but this is what I calculate:  47500KG *2.2 =  100540 lbs.  This gives an empty weight of 414,540 lbs (314000 empty weight + 100540 lbs) or an empty weight of 188427KG.  Seems a bit high to me.  A typical payload that comes with Opensky aircraft FDEs for this plane is @ 72800lbs or  @ 33000KG

 

In making any changes, try saving a flight at a point where the problem occurs, make the changes (different air file if necessary, lower payload) and reload.  With PSS T7s, in between reloading the flight it's a good idea to load a default Cessna, then reload your saved flight.

 

I have to say that with this merge I only saw a very slight amount of porpoising and a bit more side-to-side rolling.  So much of what I am suggesting re: MOI numbers is from what others have reported in this thread.

 

Please let me know if this helps!

 

Mike

[Mike777 163]

 

 

First off, thanks for your info regarding the 300ER. Since I'm just starting out flying big iron, and having discovered both POSKY and Skyspirit, the information in this thread has been most helpful. I've just been using the Panel provided with the Model, and it works just fine for me right now as I get accustomed to its flying habits.

My question to you is... are there any other tips or things that a newbie should be aware of, both with specific Skyspirit models or in general, when starting out with big iron? Are there any freeware Panels you might suggest?

 

I'm a bit puzzled by your question, since this thread is devoted to a particular merge between the payware PSS panel and the Opensky/Skyspirit freeware models.  Since you are a "Freeware Evangelist" much of this thread isn't relevant. 

 

For years I flew freeware 777s with various panels I patched together from freeware panels and gauges.  They generally cannot offer what paywhere T7s can, especially regarding a Flight Management Computer (FMC) and more generally horizontal and vertical navigation. 

 

That being said, here are some thoughts:

 

Opensky and Skyspirit T7s fly very well.  You are probably best off downloading full packages here on Avsim as putting them together from components (FDE, = aircraft.cfg+air file, model, panel, etc.) can be difficult.  The people who developed these aircraft are very good on aircraft design and visual models, but to put together an aircraft from their components involves reading instructions very carefully and installing various gauges, making changes in panel files, etc.  Obviously I don't know how familiar you are with these different components, installing gauges, etc.

 

Most Opensky/Skyspirit packages in FS9 use the default 777 panel, with some modifications.  If you are new to heavy jets, this is fine to get a feel of flying the aircraft.  In particular, you have to stay more "ahead" of the aircraft, especially in descents and final approaches, as the plane doesn't slow down as fast or turn as easily. 

 

If you like flying in the VC, look for a VC model, either in a full package or a model.  There are VC models for Opensky but not for Skyspirit.

 

There is also a set of "glass cockpit" gauges for the Opensky VC. 

 

Two web sites for models, FDEs, panels, gauges, some packages, etc.:

http://poskyarchive.com/

 

Skyspirit,

http://ssp.cyber-ninja.jp/SSP2012-777V2Update.html

 

If you want to try adding a decent freeware FMC, there is one called VasFMC.  It can be patched into most T7 panels and will give you something closer to a real, modern heavy jet's navigation capabilities.  You can find it in Avsim's library.  FS9 only, I believe.

 

There is an excellent freeware panel, complete with FMC, by Greg Wilson. It is specifically designed for the Opensky or Skyspirit T7s.  But it is available only for FSX.

http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=167467

 

Finally, if I may play the devil and try to tempt you away from your "evangelical" view :rolleyes::

In FS9 the PSS T7, available from Just Flight and Blackbox Simulations, is still a very good payware version and has many features you will not be able to find in freeware panels.  You can get all versions of the T7 by merging with Opensky.

 

In FSX, PMDG has just released perhaps the best aircraft simulation period, and certainly the best T7 simulation available.  They are very fanatical about realism.  It is somewhat demanding on computer systems and you will need a good deal of memory, an up-to-date graphics card, and a fast CPU to run it well.  They have released the 200LR, should release the 300ER soon, and hopefully will make the ER versions as well.

 

Mike

[clocki 2]

Thanks Mike.

 

All the files are from the download on the first side. Nothing important was added or removed. Of course I had to some liverys

Also WinRAR didn't produce an error like it's sometimes coming up if the download isn't complete.

Date and times machtes too...

 

I came to the specific payload as I used a real FPL from Kenya Airways and they filed as initial FL FL350 (35000ft). So I started with something around 30000kg and came to an optimal FL (by FMC) of around 36500ft. So filing FL350 wouldn't make sense

At the end I departed with a opt FL by FMC of around FL33x. I'm unfortunately not having access to the real passengers boarded.

 

I will see when I get up tomorrow and then may make a testflight with the weight you gave me. Maybe something like EGLL-LEPA just to cruise some minutes and see how the climb+cruise works.

 

But it's strange...I wanted to do tomorrow a flight from Europe to Vietnam with the Thai Creation scenery but right now it seems I'll cancel that flight

If we can figure out whats the problem this merge could be very nice for me as it's a good work

 

PS:

I hope will see a B773 merge and hope work doens't stop only because of my complains

 

PPS:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/422991-posky-utility-panel-with-missing-paints/#entry2819448

Someone has an idea about that? All the persons,chocks and GPU are not painted...Could look very good

[ViperPilot 81]

Mike,

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

I was curious about POSKY/ Skyspirit from a personal standpoint, having just started delving into flying heavy jets. I had perused the entire thread, and saw that you seemed to be 'in the know' about these airplanes so I decided to pose my questions, to which I greatly appreciated your answers.

 

Other heavy iron enthusiasts have given me awesome info about merging Panels,and I have been successful tinkering around with both the TDS 733-700 and the 787, incorporating recommended Panels into the Model and having them work properly, which seems to be the case! (Amazing...)

 

I've always been more comfortable using a 2D Panel, so the lack of a VC isn't an issue. I also have Eric Marciano's EasyFMC, and I might try installing it into one of these and see how it works.

 

Again, I really appreciate the help, and I also apologize for the thread hijack!

 

Alan 

 

P.S. The 'Freeware Evangelist' moniker was bestowed upon me by Mr. Allensworth in response to a PM I sent, 'volunteering' to provide an occasional FS 9 Freeware Review. Now, if I ever get up the guts to actually write one... :rolleyes:

[clocki 2]

Made a testflight from EGLL-EDDF with ASE weather. I have following values for you:

 

Engine: GE+COA livery provided in the package

Payload: 32000kg

ZWF (FMC): 174.4 kg

GR WT (FMC): 201.9 kg

Fuel: 25700 kg

 

Departed with a smooth roation and V1,VR,V2 set +10 in the FMC. I had shortly to be leveled at FL060 due airspace restrictions but then continued my climb towards FL330. At the beginning I selected CLB 2 but switched later at around FL100 to CLB only.

 

It seems with the payload of 32000kg no problems at all. I'm now in cruise over Belgium and no problem. Will quit now for a sleep.

 

But 32000kg are real? I had a Vr of around 138kt with flaps 5. I will may do the same flight tomorrow with a bit more load like 40000kg and see what happens to be save the problem occurs cauze the payload.

 

If you take the load of 32k kg let's make it easy for submitting

60kg each passenger

20kg each bagge

* 277 passenger of 320 max = 22160 kg

 

And then I'm getting according to the PSS FMC OPT FL which does not match to the real flightplans I got from the airline. So I'm a bit confused.

But I'm happy too that it looks like we could locate the problem

[Mike777 163]

Hi, Clocki,

 

I'm glad your plane is working now!

 

Your numbers sound reasonable as do the V Speeds.  You only have @ 55,000 lbs of fuel, so low Vspeeds are appropriate even with a fairly high payload. 

 

I wouldn't put too much faith in the FMC recommendations about VSpeeds, altitudes and step-climbs, as it is designed for a considerably heavier aircraft with much more powerful engines, as well as somewhat larger wings with greater lift. 

 

Mike

 

P.S. The 'Freeware Evangelist' moniker was bestowed upon me by Mr. Allensworth in response to a PM I sent, 'volunteering' to provide an occasional FS 9 Freeware Review. Now, if I ever get up the guts to actually write one..

 

I hope you do!  I especially like the Opensky and Skyspirit T7s and 767s. They really do excellent work.
I merged their aircraft, often using their FDEs, with the PSS T7 panels to get 200ERs and 200s, with many different repaints (PSS only made the 200LR & 300ER.  I also merged their Spirit of Delta 767-200 with Level-D's 767-300 so I could have that plane as well.   Though I've partially gone over to the dark-side of payware, for years I flew nothing but freeware, going back to the Sandro Bernardini 777 in FS98, and the Meljet T7s in FS2002 and FS2004. 

 

Mike

[clocki 2]

I will do my flight now with the maximum of 33000kg. But for later flights what is the maximum payload to avoid the bouncing and engine problem?

 

I'm also about to ask a friend to may cheat on a B772 OFP to get a average payload/pax amount. Let's see if he's able to take a look on that

 

EDIT:

Finished the testflight same as yesterday but with a payload of 38000kg and a ZFW of 180.4 . Plane was this time with RR engine as I will start my flight today with RR engines and I wanted to be on the safe side

 

But suddenly passing FL244 over Dover it started bouncing again.

 

So I don't know if the problem occurs if the ZFW is to much or only if the payload get's over an specific value.

[clocki 2]

What the hell...

 

I just departed EDDF with a B772 RR and passing FL180 it started shaking and bouncing again :angry:

 

The payload is below the 33000kg I have loaded only 29500kg and fuel of around 94000kg. IT's only in VNAV. If I select the V/S mode it stops bouncing and flies normally (sometimes only small bounces 0,5°).

Also tried to set the payload to a lower value and then change the ZFW too but no change :(

 

I really like that merge but it's actual not fun to fly :(

 

I don't understand that...I had no problems yesterday with the short hop EGLL-EDDF and a higher payload.