RNP Approach Construction.

[virgin737pilot 0]

Mate sorry for all the replies!

 

But if there is a time your free over the Christmas break I'll see if I can get you in the jump seat when we fly to say the gold coast and I'll show you a RNP approach from how we do it

 

Message back if your interested

[QF 737 2]

PM sent. Offer appreciated. I'm going to count the z's. Thanks for the help.

 

McKenna.

[virgin737pilot 0]

Mate we do Abit! But it's different !

 

And ILS Is used in 2 different scenarios

 

1- bad visibility the Tower at YBBN will contact us and say

Virgin 989 Brisbane tower

We say virgin 989 Brisbane tower go ahead

They say we have say visibility down 1 mile in heavy fog

CAT3 ILS for runway 19 in use

Descend down to 3500!

So at 3500 we intercept the waypoint!

Leaky, at leaky they will tell us to either hold and descend FO 2500 or continue on our star into ybbn!

So either there may be traffic ahead so they will make us hold and then out us on a 20 mile long final and that's very long!

So its easy we intercept the glide slope at 2500 and the glide slop does the rest! For cat 3 both captain and FO Autopilot must be engaged and u can not disengage the autopilot until you have touched down on the runway and reverse and spoilers is up! Other wise if we haven't by the Time the reverse goes In it does it itself!

 

2- is like Brisbane now they have shut runway 14/32 for construction so know Brisbane has become a traffic jam, normally the virgin embraers and the little qantas links and ATR Can land on runway 14/32

But know Brisbane has one runway in use and that's say runway 01 for today. So instead of two runways going there is only 1 and This one runway us getting used by both international jets, domestic jets and now the stupid little small hop jets! So know as this delay to let all these planes takeoff it makes us late to land

So say I'm going from Sydney to Brisbane! All the traffic piled up means that aircraft gave to hold, wasting fuel, and also flights are delayed that even the bays are taken up! I have flow 15 secTors into Brisbane last week, every time we have had to hold for at least 20 minutes then we would land and waif on the taxi way for our bay to become available! Every time I departed Brisbane last week I was atleast 20 minutes late To depart caus of the traffic!

 

 

Back to Landing

So ATC will set us up for the approach, ther is traffic so thy put us on a long final ILS !

But there is Abit of traffic but they want us to land before em

So here we are at 2500FT approaching runway 19 and they say

Virgin 989 immediately descent To 1500 and make a left turn of say 300

And expect a short 5 mile final! Now that's short!

So that's whn we do the RNP but basically I disengage when they tel us to turn to headin 300

Cause I have better control!

Well I hope this explains it !

 

 

I sign on at 11 tommorow so I better get some rest flying to Hamilton island

Now that's a fun RNP approach my friend if u don't get that right u will end up it int drink for sure

 

[QF 737 2]

I'm awake, and back. I think i've found the issue. Refer to the image.

 

 

Circled, is an alt constraint for the runway. How do I ammend this figure. I have no idea why it is set to 62 ft. I think this alt constraint is the cause of the "floating" below 250 ft.

 

Mike McKenna.

[WR269 367]

interesting stuff Jack, who did your training on the 737? i know the check and training captains, it is a small world! i had no idea VOZ were actually doing RNP approaches? When did that start? shows how quickly things change in the industry when you dont follow it closely enough.

[scott1968 0]

In the real world I do lots and lots of RNP Approaches

 

When did Virgin Group obtain CASA approval to conduct RNP AR approaches?

 

 

We say virgin 989 Brisbane tower go ahead

They say we have say visibility down 1 mile in heavy fog

CAT3 ILS for runway 19 in use

 

CAT3 ILS at Brisbane Airport, when was that installed?

[QF 737 2]

When did Virgin Group obtain CASA approval to conduct RNP AR approaches?

The latest approval for Virgin Aust (not Virgin Group) is from CASA instrument 194/12. That instrument, supersedes Instrument CASA 430/10. So effectively, they (Virgin Aust) have had approval for some time. Whether it's used, I'm not sure.

 

Does anyone know how to change the runway alt constraint? I'm unable to do it via the CDU, and am unable to find a way to change it from the SIDSTAR.txt.

 

Mike.

[Porthos 9]

Mike you cannot change the RWY elevation ..its fixed for all runways in the airac datbase.

 

I designed and implemented the RNP approaches in Australia except YSCB so I know a little about them.

 

One issue might be with the PMDG FMS - and I stand to be corrected here - is that it will not fully emulate the RNP AR approaches. I am not sure yet if RF turns have been implemented so you might also have an issue with turns. This might also have an issue for nertical nav from 250 to 50 ft but:

 

You mentioned you had a copy of the NZQN approaches and made that to 50ft without issue? perhaps have a look at the coding used there to see if you have missed anything.

 

I have coded the YBBN RNP M and P to both runways but havent played with them for a while. I will dig those out and see what happens here.

 

Not much help I am afraid but I thik an email to PMDG might also give you a couple answers.

[rsvit 16]

Circled, is an alt constraint for the runway. How do I ammend this figure. I have no idea why it is set to 62 ft.

 

That's runway threshold crossing altutute. Usual height is 50'. So here 50+12=62.

[zazaboeing 15]

 

 

That's runway threshold crossing altutute. Usual height is 50'. So here 50+12=62.

 

He's right ... And sorry to be "surrounding" this topic but, as I've been away for a while I am all doubts here.

How are u guys flying RNP procedures, 'cause as far as I am concerned , it's not possible in the NGX. It doesnt have TF and Radius to Fix modelled in the airac.

Sorry if I am mistaken!

 

Best regards,

[virgin737pilot 0]

Gday from the sunny Hamilton island!

A couple of points!

Brisbane doesn't have cat3 installed! I was just trying to make an example !

No airports in oz have cat 3 installsd

In I think 07 or 08 there was talk of ymml and CASA agreeing to runway 16 at ymml having cat 3 but there has been lots of disagreement In the years! Still strongly ymml will get cat 3 in future for sure

Canberra and Sydney had talk to CASA but to this day only cat 1 and 2 stands in oz

1 major reason CASA declined Sydney was because Yssy airport being so close to the city, the amount of RFI (radio frequency interference) is an issue, it was issued that having cat 1 was hard enough to handle and they struggle majorly

Next

Brad jones was the check and training captain who trained me back in 08 haven't heard from brad In a while! Also John hazelton

I'm not sure when Virgin got CASA approval for RNP Approches! But we are able to do them!

Again the mystery continues with the RNP maybe the PMDG support staff is an option

[QF 737 2]

I designed and implemented the RNP approaches in Australia except YSCB so I know a little about them.

Very impressive work you've done Rob.

 

I am not sure yet if RF turns have been implemented so you might also have an issue with turns.

You're quite right. RF turns aren't creatable on the NGX, so in lieu of RF legs, I just made a string of pseudo-waypoints along the lateral path to achieve almost the same path as the charts.

 

I think i'll just leave it at that. My procedure can get me to DA(h) which is good enough. If you could offer any further advice, i'm open to take it. Cheers Rob, and great work!

 

 

 

That's runway threshold crossing altutute. Usual height is 50'. So here 50+12=62.

Ok. Thanks for the explanation of it.

 

 

 

How are u guys flying RNP procedures

I can't speak for other peoples re-creation of RNP approaches, but mine are made using existing waypoints, and by creating pseudo-waypoints to create the RF turns. No, they aren't true reflections of the actual procedures, but, they are as close as we can get.

 

Mike

[Tabs 2,790]

Guys,

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't you going to be disconnecting the AP around the DA for the approach and not down at some sub-ILS level like what's being talked about here?

 

- The runway "restriction" is the real world value for the runway elevation that comes from the navdata. Nothing we can really do here because the FSX world doesn't support sloped airport grounds at all - there's always going to be some element of error there unless the airport's grounds truly are flat AND your terrain mesh has the correct altitude for it.

 

- The FMS and our navdata format does not have support for several RNP related things - RF legs, the true encoded RNP value "metadata" that's in real life navdata, and a couple other small things. These are all on the list for when we finally go and redo our navdata format to be fully ARINC 424 compliant. I have no ETA for when that will be - it's a huge undertaking for Vangelis and Alex and will require a ton of testing. That stuff is at the core of how the FMC code functions.

[scott1968 0]

No airports in oz have cat 3 installsd

 

 

What about YMML, didn't they get one back in 2011?

 

 

In the real world I do lots and lots of RNP Approaches

 

Really? Do tell, what locations? I understood that you guys hadn't been trained up.

[ZKOKQ 984]

Great thread. Here is a link to the thread to the Queenstown RNP as it relates to the PMDG NGX.

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/356733-procedures-for-queenstown-nz/