FSX-MS Inherent flaw of FSX to give too much ground friction?

[FSMP 95]

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I've got some more testing to do and documentation to update, but meanwhile comments on this approach are welcomed. I am out tonight so this won't get released till Thursday morning (UK time).

 

Regards

Pete

 

Great approach -- looks very clean and usable.

(but then one would expect no less from you Peter )

[FSMP 95]

 

 

Here's an example Lua plug-in which sets Johan's currently released changes:

 

ipc.RestoreFriction()

ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, CONCRETE, ROLLING, DRY, 0.030)
ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, GRASS, ROLLING, DRY, 0.060)
ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, GRASS_BUMPY,ROLLING, DRY, 0.070)
ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, ASPHALT, ROLLING, DRY, 0.025)
ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, SHORT_GRASS,ROLLING, DRY, 0.050)
ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, LONG_GRASS, ROLLING, DRY, 0.060)

etc etc

Regards

Pete

 

Suggestion:

For Lua Example, maybe add Microsoft's ORIGINAL values in as Comments.

This would proved a good reference to those original values.

 

ie

ipc.RestoreFriction()
ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, CONCRETE, ROLLING, DRY, 0.030) -- 0.0??
ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, GRASS, ROLLING, DRY, 0.060) -- 0.0??
ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, GRASS_BUMPY,ROLLING, DRY, 0.070) -- 0.0??
ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, ASPHALT, ROLLING, DRY, 0.025) -- 0.0??
ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, SHORT_GRASS,ROLLING, DRY, 0.050) -- 0.0??
ipc.SetFriction(WHEEL, LONG_GRASS, ROLLING, DRY, 0.060)	-- 0.0??

[LHookins 3,103]

I'd like to test the side friction on my system. Given the stock C-172 and the clear weather theme, which airport (the runway surfaces are different at different airports), which runway, and what ground speed to I need to experience skidding? You can get the ground speed from the GPS.

 

Jeez! You REALLY have to abuse the C172 to get a skid. I was even able to get it to nose over to one side, but I had to work at it.

 

If people are getting their C172 to skid under normal conditions at anything near NORMAL taxi speeds, there's a problem.

 

I really don't think that PMDG would have their "aircraft install" MODIFY any of the simulator's native dlls.

There would be potentially disastrous consequences if they did !!!

 

It would. It would cause exactly the kinds of problems people are reporting.

 

So check the date of the sim1.dll file to see if it's the same date you installed (or possibly updated) FSX, or if it's a later date indicating someone else modified it. It's the "date modified" in the properties tab.

 

That is, if anyone still has an original sim1.dll file.

 

Hook

[Great Ozzie 101]

That is, if anyone still has an original sim1.dll file.

 

FSX + Accel: 9/26/2007 3:09 PM 869 KB

 

 

Also found a original? in the ..\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Setup\XPackCache

 

but named ROOT_sim1.dll 9/9/2006 5:15 AM 757 KB

 

You REALLY have to abuse the C172 to get a skid.

 

or some very strange circumstance... like :unknw:

[LHookins 3,103]

FSX + Accel: 9/26/2007 3:09 PM

 

Right click on the sim1.dll file and click on properties. You'll see three dates:

 

Created: Monday, ‎December ‎10, ‎2007, ‏‎9:30:16 PM

Modified: Monday, ‎December ‎10, ‎2007, ‏‎9:30:16 PM

Accessed: Saturday, ‎December ‎17, ‎2011, ‏‎8:55:39 AM

 

I was wrong above, it's the Accessed date that's important. Mine shows when I installed FSX on my new computer. If it gets updated, it *should* show the date that happened. Funny that the Created date for my SP2 version is later than the Acceleration version.

 

Sorry 'bout that. Try again? Oh, and do you have the "Bambi on ice" problem? And any PMDG aircraft?

 

Hook

[Great Ozzie 101]

This is weird...

 

The Accessed date is just a few minutes ago... Today December 05, 2012 6:46:55 PM

 

It was searched on my old FSX comp... didn't do anything but the search. Win XP x64 is the os.

 

 

Searching my new comp using Win7 x64, Accessed: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:04:37 AM

 

The other two dates are: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:09:20 PM

 

no problem btw. I never felt the friction was off (ground that is)... no ice capades. And I have the PMDG 747 (& 8i) and 737NGX on the old... just the 747 & 8i installed atm on the new.

[LHookins 3,103]

no problem btw. I never felt the friction was off (ground that is)... no ice capades. And I have the PMDG 747 (& 8i) and 737NGX on the old... just the 747 & 8i installed atm on the new.

 

Weird dates. Maybe XP marks it accessed if you do anything to the file. I'm guessing you got the new computer on September 24, 2012? Or did you install something on that date besides FSX?

 

Ok, if you have the PMDG aircraft and don't have the slippery pavement problems, then we can rule out PMDG as a culprit. At least on those two aircraft. Seems unlikely that everyone with the problem has another PMDG like the MD-11. I'm sure you'll let us know if you start having problems when you install the 737 NGX on the new computer.

 

Any idea what else people who have the problem have in common? Some aircraft or scenery? Another add-on? I'm ruling out PEBKAC for the moment; the least likely explanation at this point is that everyone is abusing their taxi speeds.

 

I think the modification to FSUIPC is a great idea, especially if I can modify friction for individual aircraft. Makes me glad I registered it a few days ago.

 

Hook

[Great Ozzie 101]

I'm guessing you got the new computer on September 24, 2012?

 

Very close... put together / Win & drivers installed the previous two days. FSX "Gold" installed (no add-ons) on the 24th.

 

Yes when I install the NGX (waiting on SP2) I will let you know if any problem - assuming I remember.

 

if you have the PMDG aircraft and don't have the slippery pavement problems, then we can rule out PMDG as a culprit

 

Yeah they seemed fine Hook... in fact... w/Max autobrake and a light fuel load (less than 10 tonnes - no pax / cargo) we've put the PMDG 747 into strips as short as 2400' (barely - it's an RTRW thing). I didn't realize the "ice problem" till this thread... I thought this was more of a tweaking thing for folk believing the friction wasn't quite right.

 

One thing I can remember is some having a braking problem with the F/A-18 Hornet - which I never did. In fact... I made a vid to demo braking action. You can see a comment there asking how did I fix it.

 

[Pete Dowson 558]

The Accessed date is just a few minutes ago... Today December 05, 2012 6:46:55 PM

 

Unless you switch it off, Windows timestamps accesses. That's what "access" means. FSX accesses it. You probably have too.

 

Pete

[Great Ozzie 101]

FSX accesses it. You probably have too

 

Well... FSX was not run... and I did not mess with it.... so Explorer would change the date because of a search (that's all I did as Hook was asking about a date)?

 

Rob

 

so Explorer would change the date because of a search?

 

Just answered my own question... ran another search and it had the current time... so by default seems XP x64 does... and Win7 does not.

[LHookins 3,103]

One thing I can remember is some having a braking problem with the F/A-18 Hornet - which I never did. In fact... I made a vid to demo braking action. You can see a comment there asking how did I fix it.

 

I notice in the video that yours was a response to, all the other aircraft were stopped with the parking brake. The F-18 was stopped with regular brakes. Don't know if it was pedals, but there was no "differential brakes" indicator at the bottom.

 

Hook

[Guest Raul_Hernandez]

Just tried the new SIM1 file with the NGX and WOW!..... ground handling is so much better... this feels like a real FDE update for FSX.

 

A big well done and thanks to those who've worked on this. :smile:

[FSMP 95]

It's time to STOP all these Conspiracy Theories about developers (Like PMDG), altering FSX system dlls !!

 

It just isn't something that any credible addon developer would do.

 

----------------

FYI:

Checking to see if files have been patched, by looking at Dates, or file size is pointless.

For example, if anyone is going to hack a dll, typically the hacked version will be exactly the same size as the original,

 

To verify if a file has been changed in any way, you either have to do a bit-comparison with the original file, or you can compare a "Checksum/Hash" of the suspect file, with that of the original.

 

There are many Checksum-Hash programs out there, including a few official Microsoft ones.

 

For Example, the MD5 checksum of FSX-Xpack's sim1.dll is AA1E58712B94C86237CC5C9384B2D1FD

 

The Patched version of the same dll, as patched by the Friction Patcher referenced earlier in this thread is

4F6A88625FA585812A1D5DC4A781E4B3

 

Both version have EXACTLY the same File size, and the patched version "could" also have been modified to have the same "Creation" and "Last Modified" dates.

 

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD5

 

------------

Here is a list of the MD5 Hashes for the dll's in my FSX directory. (FSX-Xpack)

As far as I am aware, theses should all be original, un-hacked files !!

 

 

# Generated 12/5/2012 8:01:46 PM

# MD5 checksums generated by MD5summer (http://www.md5summer.org)

 

0d7ea2d38feac2c8548ee3efb3ea70a3 *TCAS2v7.dll
0ecce9cea6c56a3e98adce6bc29bdf01 *dxgi.dll
1009376ec83b63f000521c617fb73a73 *simprop.dll
10d5ce2eaa76efb52898b105b930c71c *ui.dll
14939b975924b6c5d23858e03a9069d9 *sldlext.dll
1e4a1336e6631e58f5537c6f0cb73fa4 *visualfx.dll
2a40376d2f76e956d1afb4c879ea228f *controls.dll
2a66a9d0b286bd04f49beefa0ad2097a *simpropext.dll
38f5519a7ab53f0158969dd62045e4eb *CFData.dll
3ba8970b13128331669b8168b0c08694 *fs-traffic.dll
3cc353c046f7d5de931fe54f235c07b8 *virtavia.dll
4241b57394a66bd65261a8d6d2cf3a40 *symmap.dll
457aa5d60fb72039bfa2c4551bc0c320 *panels.dll
45ae090b09daa2cafac56001a5f7ff8d *demo.dll
47134891ff607723f18e602d564b2609 *simpropace.dll
4bcce2f6581bb46564155f3576028987 *lua5.1.dll
4e7fa35986592192869618162804be8e *ablscpt.dll
4f66e60554e839afcff0fde67f217c3e *window.dll
50fd6d0569bb9d495e816d637d45d049 *multiplayer.dll
58bf8a90aad43f1b8ebe527ea7b56965 *FnpCommsSoap.dll
59a00b5048b1359c6c65745cb8bed073 *esftchk2.dll
60bf983a58823b7a575249cbf29cea87 *gps.dll
643318ef92639efe0c95ca3310f5fb7b *facilities.dll
6804e1752f07ed86d658e806e328da5c *livingwater.dll
6a0d9eb9e01e68e5d1d2c3ffb586b5a1 *g3d.dll
6f6d32969b4615fc12b5dbdddc974ae2 *GaugeSound.dll
6ffe1ee74d55507843eea6cdb441688b *main.dll
70f849a142ca5e205826aa77768f8db5 *SOARRec.dll
753535668187c3d2dbc0f9551646de39 *mspacres.dll
78491d521448613e9fd437765d183f3d *fe.dll
81a29e6e1b3caab6509dd5317a1eed04 *util.dll
8d6a25920e035ac9b1b0f597d405339f *simscheduler.dll
9e549eb25925cdf884ac7a2f4be5f67a *g2d.dll
a1791768b05ef27b79ec40ab1c749937 *xuipc.dll
a498f17ac0156459621563e36ed9b391 *FSSound.dll
a58dd86057f24c23ae25cab8df0e7e32 *fsui.dll
aa1e58712b94c86237cc5c9384b2d1fd *sim1.dll
aba57975fc0a7ca633dd2311b8da8f3a *flight.dll
b2bbd51b3a9885f07eb46d0b96c96398 *mspac.dll
b96477f5c7bd1d0cb8fd679dfedc1a24 *Ckpsound.dll
bd37e9627516818490dc1b4b5c219b64 *sound.dll
c30374a958b82a18e771fa656e14266b *api.dll
c46a35d1894dd144dfbeefc27fd0d63b *atc.dll
ca69970d05994a0758337e13c23638ea *terrain.dll
de9be9e9415a3675e28d7506e67eea40 *acontain.dll
ed7e865a8aecd91dedc3759679778ac9 *weather.dll
ee048bcfce7ba81ad9e753fefcadcb9d *GameuxInstallHelper.dll
ef6829b11239cb2a021af36971758ea3 *language.dll
f25268e7e1f40009a2dd21598946fe06 *ai_player.dll
ff823c45cabda432a0598f8b0c2ec960 *eula.dll

 

Plus one PATCHED dll

4f6a88625fa585812a1d5dc4a781e4b3 *sim1.dll.patched

 

============

 

MD5 checksums generated by MD5summer (http://www.md5summer.org) is a neat program.

 

It will produce a TEXT "MD5 Checksum" listing of selected files in a folder, or group of folders, and save them.

At a later date, the same program can compare that list with the current file's checksums, and tell you if any have changed.

 

Nice Utility to have in your Toolbox !!

[LHookins 3,103]

It just isn't something that any credible addon developer would do.

 

Nor is destroying your fight sim installation if they have reason to believe you're using a pirated copy of their software. Once a company has decided that kind of thing is acceptable, altering FSX system dll's is nothing.

 

The day I realized I had become an adult was the day I realized I'd never again be able to say, "THEY wouldn't to THAT!" Because they not only would, it's probably SOP. If you haven't gotten to that point yet, don't worry, you will.

 

Hook

[Great Ozzie 101]

It's time to STOP all these Conspiracy Theories about developers (Like PMDG), altering FSX system dlls !!

 

ooooohhh myyyyy.

 

It just isn't something that any credible addon developer would do.

 

I sincerely hope you are correct.

 

Checking to see if files have been patched, by looking at Dates, or file size is pointless.

 

So if a person changing the file could care less the date.... the date stays the same if it were changed?

 

 

 

Oh boy....

 

 

Ok... now yous guys have done it....

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/393186-ground-dragfriction-the-ngx/#entry2537231