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Jarkko

Overspeed protection for MD11 and JS41?

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Hello!

 

First things first, I know that this request is a long shot, but I think it's worth asking, so here we go:

 

A couple of users (including me) are having problems with overspeed situations when using OpusFSX with MD11, JS41 and Leonardo Maddog. PMDG's NGX and 747 seem to have no problems handling Opus winds.

 

If I have understood the situation correctly, FSX changes the current speed to 0 during weather update (only for a split second). Continuing with an example:

 

Couple of days ago, I did a flight from KBLI to KSKA (FL170) with strong tailwind (40kts). When the weather is updated, the tailwind goes from 40 to 0kts => overspeed.

 

What could cause MD11 and JS41 to be sensitive to the wind change, when NGX and 747 do not seem to mind? How unlikely would it be to release an Opus friendly version?

 

Again, I know that this is a long shot, but I had to ask, because these are the products I use 90% of the time. Thanks!

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Interesting, I have exactly the same problem with the MD11, and only the MD11

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Yes.. as said by Stephen (the creator of Opus) Creators of the planes have to make a filter to avoid those noise peaks in the wind. They are the only that can make that. But as you know J41 and MD11 don't receive any more updates... do they?

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Thanks for the info Japo, I hadn't realized there was a technical reason for it. At least I will save some time trying different settings in an attempt to resolve it.

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For now to save your flights and now have overspeed always it is better to maitain your speed some knots behind the usual we all do (near the overspeed below limit).. so if we have a change of wing those extra IAS don't go to the red tape. Same when descending 10,000ft. Maintain 240 instead 250.

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In cruise I'm just been turning off automatic weather updating if I'm away from the keyboard.

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I know that this request is a long shot

Jarkko

 

You got that right. Never happen in a thousand years. We'll see the Second Coming before we will see an update for the MD-11.

 

Michael Cubine

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Michael, who knows? If there is a clearly identifiable problem with the MD-11 and Opus, which is quickly becoming the weather engine of choice, it is affecting a lot of users. If, and I repeat if, this is the case, and it is a relatively easy fix, and again I repeat if it is a relatively easy fix, why not put out a small patch?

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I am using FSUIPC wind smoothing for that case. I believe it is set here to change no more than 5 kts per second

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Stephen says that the wind smoothing in FSUIPC is better to switch it off. Says that even activating it, make worst things. Don't know.

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I never experienced this with AS2012. I wonder if indeed the airplane creators are the one that have to do something....

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At least for me, it seems that FSX internal weather bugs cause a situation where you either have "realistic/controlled" weather at the surface or at your cruise altitude, but not both.

 

As "Japo32" mentioned, one of the weather engine developers has said, that airplane creators could possibly "help out", by filtering "noisy data", that FSX produces (when using advanced weather engines).

 

If updates to these "old" but wonderful airplanes is out of the question, I wonder if PMDG could provide one of their products to weather engine developers (for testing purposes)? I know that Opus already uses PMDG 737 for testing. The problem is that the 737 doesn't seem to mind about the "erratic" weather data.

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I am using FSUIPC wind smoothing for that case. I believe it is set here to change no more than 5 kts per second

Bart

It does not work for OpusFSX. I have tried it.

Michael Cubine

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In AS2012 this not happen because it is controlled weather. Global. Not local and realistic as Opus.

 

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AS2012 has Standard Depiction mode that provides only correct surface conditions, but causes cloud and wind shits. (A mode loosely comparable to Opus)

 

It also has direct/global weather for correct winds aloft but universal surface conditions.

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AS2012 has Standard Depiction mode that provides only correct surface conditions, but causes cloud and wind shits. (A mode loosely comparable to Opus)

 

It also has direct/global weather for correct winds aloft but universal surface conditions.

 

In AS2012 this not happen because it is controlled weather. Global. Not local and realistic as Opus.

 

I don't know how it's your configuration in AS2012 but I don't have nor wind or clouds shift. In fact, using Opus some times the clouds change suddenly from one type to another, or to fluffy ones to flat ones.

 

Maybe I came in the wrong way, I own all 3 weather programs, and I like Opus over the other 2, but as far as injecting the weather into FSX Opus has a problem. I don't care if AS2012 is a controlled weather or whatever, it has to inject it nonetheless, and this micro "weather" shift does not occur with it.

 

Anyway, I will keep using Opus.

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No no, I don't have any problem of wind swift with AS2012. I have with Opus which for me is better.

 

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I own all 3 weather programs, and I like Opus over the other 2, but as far as injecting the weather into FSX Opus has a problem. ...

Anyway, I will keep using Opus.

 

I also own all of the 3 wx programs and would like to continue using Opus if these overspeed troubles can be somehow worked around.

 

Just to get back on topic: on the official Opus forum, Stephen mentioned that someone could contact PMDG and Leonardo about the overspeed protection. I realized to be that I could be that "someone" ;)

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I don't think PMDG will touch the code of the MD11 or the J41. The last one has known bugs and they said that they won't fix it.

I think that taking into consideration that Opus is still in development, we have more chances to have something fixed with Opus than with the MD11 or J41.

 

That's what I think.

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What I just read above, is something like.

 

"Opus causes the wind to go from massive tailwinds to 0kts in a millisecond instant sometimes - but it's the PMDG MD11 that is causing the issue, not the sudden 100 knot jump in airspeed caused by the OPUS doing something to the winds that would never happen in real life and that doesn't happen in other weather programs, but Opus is more realistic so I'm not going to stop using it, or use fsuicp to smooth out the winds so that the 100kt jump in windspeed happens slowly over 5 minutes - Fix the MD11 so it can handle 100kt changes in airspeed in 0.01 seconds!"

 

FACE PALM

 

 

Sudden windshifts is something that happens in FSX. FSUCIP can stop it from happening. Therefore the fix to the sudden windshift problem is... not using high quality payware addon aircraft?

 

DOUBLE FACE PALM.

 

Demanding that high quality payware addon aircraft be modified so that they can handle 100kt instantaneous changes in windspeed?

 

QUADRUPLE FACE PALM

 

 

Get FSUIPC and add wind shift protections. Easy simple answer. No more coming to a complete stop at FL350

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Close but no cigar ;)

 

Let's start of with FSUIPC. I have the registered version and have used it with other weather programs. Works fine with them.

 

The problem is that the FSUIPC protection is designed for weather that is injected to FSX in a more "traditional" way. I'm not quite sure if this is correct, but I vaguely remember reading that even the FSUIPC developer had said that Opus doesn't use "traditional" way of injecting weather => can't be protected at the moment.

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The main thing I'm trying to avoid here is a situation where wx engine developers say that the aircraft have to be updated and the aircraft developers say that it's nothing they wan't to do.

 

This just gets us to a situation where no one does anything to alleviate the problem. I can see two sides of the coin:

 

wx engine developer's: "The product works with 90% of the aircrafts out there. We can't buy and test every one of them. Wouldn't it be easier for the aircraft developer add data filtering to a couple of products that are more sensitive than others."

 

and the aircraft developers: "Our product has worked just fine with other weather engines, why should we make any changes?"

 

Without knowing anything about coding for FSX I would still guess that a simple, outlier based filter might be possible to add to an aircraft. Then again, changeing the way that weather is injected to FSX, might not be a big problem. i really do not know.

 

I'm just trying to find a solution how I can do enjoyable flights with Opus and these wonderful planes.

 

(It is 1 AM so sorry for any typos)

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I'm just curious as to how you guys think we can "filter out" what for all intents and purposes is a very huge case of windshear? Things like wind suddenly going from 40 knots to 0 has caused crashes in real life. When these shifts happen in FSX, it's not just some visual thing on the speed tape in the cockpit - the airplane is actually being physically affected by it and FSX applies a real force to the aircraft.

 

I also don't see how supposedly only the MD-11 and J41 are susceptible to this - the NGX and 747 don't have anything that stops this either. (Again, I don't see how they even could filter out a real physical force on the airplane)

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Finally some sense into this matter.

 

I use AS2012 SP2 in it's latest beta, with Daveo's recommended settings when flying NGX and MD-11, all wind smoothing in FSUIPC disabled.

 

I never had any issues with windshifts, preasurechanges or sudden high temperatures aloft. My fuelcalculations and ETAs are spot on, as long as the winds aloft predictions I get from AS2012 are programmed in my FMC/FMS.

 

I own Opus too, great depiction of real weather when flying GA, but for tubeliner longhauls, nah...

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Finally some sense into this matter.

 

I use AS2012 SP2 in it's latest beta, with Daveo's recommended settings when flying NGX and MD-11, all wind smoothing in FSUIPC disabled.

 

I never had any issues with windshifts, preasurechanges or sudden high temperatures aloft. My fuelcalculations and ETAs are spot on, as long as the winds aloft predictions I get from AS2012 are programmed in my FMC/FMS.

 

I own Opus too, great depiction of real weather when flying GA, but for tubeliner longhauls, nah...

My thoughts exactly! I also run AS2012, the latest version, and have ZERO issues with wind shifts or anything else for that matter.

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