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CF104

FS2004 Default 747

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Hey guys, I suspect this must've been addressed eons ago, but a search function doesn't return anything remotely related.For the first time since I've had FS9 (which is when it first came out), the other night (and several times since) I tried to play around with the default 747.What happens is, no matter whether I try to hand fly or use the auto-pilot to get the thing airborne, the nose lifts off at a rather high angle, but the tail just drags on the ground forever.As I say, this is using the straight FS9 default 747 configuration with no other mods on my part whatsoever. And it only happens with the 747. All default configs with any other plane work as they should; it's just the 747.Is it just me and I've screwed up something somewhere? The only addons I have are UT, FS9_Meteo and Active Sky.Or is a known bug?Thanks for any/all responses.Woody

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Well, first off the autopilot won't take off for you. As for flying by hand, it sounds like a trim problem. Check the elevator trim (I forget exactly where it is on the default panel).

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>Well, first off the autopilot won't take off for you. >>As for flying by hand, it sounds like a trim problem. Check>the elevator trim (I forget exactly where it is on the default>panel). Hmmm.... the auto-pilot takes care of takeoffs in the 737 and 777....

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Well, it might very well work, however the autopilot is not designed to do it. The autopilot will not know about striking the tail.

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Hiya Woddy.Nope, there is no such thing as a AP that handles any takeoff. Well, there are some military UAVs that have this feature in trial...The short story is that there is a (actually a number) of computers that can be called FCCs (Flight Control Computers). They "drive" the Flight Directors (FD) in different ways depending on a number of things, such as if you press a TOGA button or select a certain Automatic Flight Director System (AFDS) mode such as Heading Select (there are a bunch of these modes) on the Mode Control Panel (MCP). As a pilot you need to fly the plane initially until such a time as the Autopilot can take over the flying. The "only" thing the autopilot system does is follow the directions of the FD bars, just as you would if you were handflying. Add to this the Autothrottle (AT) that handles the throttles and a Flight Management Computer (FMC) that takes care of a bunch of things such as navigating and you can sit back and relax.Different aircraft have some, all or none of these gadgets but no civil transport aircraft can (yet) takeoff fully automatically, as opposed to landing which can be done completely handsoff in certain circumstances.Hope I

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I haven't flown the default 747 in a while, but I would examine 2 things:1. Take-off weight. How much fuel do you have on-board? Try reducing that amount significantly.2. Runway length. Where are you taking off from? Are you able to attain your Vr speed, and are you waiting to reach that speed before rotating?Also, what flaps setting are you using?You may get some ideas here http://www.fsaerospace.com/index.php?secti...upport&recnum=8[Edit to correct the link]Also, there is a 747 ops manual by Matt Zagoren in the library here http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID...misc&DLID=16529. The description states it's "...taken from a real world 747-100/-200/SP operations/training manual. It's a PDF, so make sure you have Adobe Acrobat reader.While writing this, I decided I had better try a take-off in the default 747. Here's what I did: on the active at KSEA with full fuel (I know I'm contradicting what I suggested above- I just wanted to see what would happen ;-) ); set flaps to 20 (at a lighter take-off weight I would have used 15); advanced throttle half-way, checked for positive fuel flow then advanced to 94% N1, then released parking brake; at 160 kts, raised the nose to 15-20 degrees.The plane lifted off nicely. After establishing a positive rate of climb, retracted the landing gear and reduced flaps according to schedule... you get the idea.I'm not sure how close this is to real-world procedures (like I said, I haven't flown the 747 in the sim for a while) so others may point out inaccuracies in what I've just written. My point is that there are procedures to follow when flying airliners that you need to be aware of to get the results you want. For some, learning them is one of the rewarding aspects of Flight Simulator.

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Woody,Sounds like the Stabilizer trim needs easing back a bit. I don't have FS9 but you might find the stab. trim controls on the side of the pedastal near the throttle quadrant. There is no elevator trim on the 747.Roger

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Yes i have the same problem (maybe it handles like this i dont know)Anyway assign a key for TRIM UP and TRIM DOWN found under aircraft surface control menu in the key assignements in the main menu of FS9immediatly after takeoff and adjusting your climb angle press the TRIM UP key a little until u get established..when u need to descent use the TRIM DOWN key .i.e u'll use these keys a lot they r very important in the B747I think joysticks overcome this problem though

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Hello Woody!!!!There is no such thing as the A/P taking off the aircraft. The A/P will take over as soon as the crewmembers activate it, usually after a positive rate of climb is established during takeoff.Check the trim setting on the 747 and I also recommend you look for updated flight dynamics for the 747, available in AVSIM or in the other website.Sincerely,Dennis D. Mullert

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I also agree with the above comments, though I've not had to worry about trimming the 747 on take-off. Once a positive climb is established and the gear is stowed, THEN the A/P can be activated (set the parameters on the MCDU before you take off though, otherwise you'll invariable 'land' before you intend to!!).As stated, A/P is not to be engaged before take-off....some planes act like helicopters if this is done, and leap into the sky before you've rolled 6 feet down the runway!!! Not too likely an event in a heavy :) Also, adjust your weight before you start the flight....if I remember correctly, by default, the 747 starts over the max allowed weight limit, so pull back on the fuel load and payload; an aproximate fuel usage is given after you make your flight-plan.Oh, and gently pull back on the stick so that your initial climb is very shallow....3-5 degrees only, until you hear the gear leave the tarmac, then gently pull back a little further, otherwise you'll get a tail-strike!

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Thanks very much for the responses all; they've all been very helpful and I'm sure I'll be finally able to get the 747 in the air tonight after work.Re: the autopilot stuff and takeoffs....I'm telling you guys, with the 737 & 777, all I gotta to is, prior to takeoff, is dial in my IAS (250 kts), my ATC assigned altitude and heading and set flaps. Then, when ready, hit the Flight Director, Auto-throttle, Heading and Autopilot buttons and off she goes. Rotation seems to occur normally and really, it's all quite uneventful. And of course retract flaps and gear.I just sit back, dialing in adjustments to heading, altitude when directed by ATC and that's pretty much it. And of course dial in an increased speed once past 10k feet.I don't pick up the joystick until the last of final.Perhaps we can quibble and say this isn't real world, but is it realy that far off? (Other than the known complicated startup features required in something like the PMDG 737.)Anyway thanks very much again for the help.Woody

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We aren't doubting that it works, especially for the lighter 737. The default planes are set up with a very light load, and they have a lot more power than in real life. The problem is that the autopilot does not know about a tail strike. That is the problem you were having with the 747 because it is heavier. The 737 is much smaller and lighter, so it jumps off the runway faster and you won't hit the tail. (not sure about the 777). As for real world, as someone said, autopilot takeoffs are just not used in practical applications. I would guess that it really serves no purpose. We have autoland on full autopilot so we can land planes in zero visibility. However if there is zero visibility on the ground, the plane will just not take off. Hope this helps...Oh and if you want to get out of the defaults and start flying with more realistic planes, check out the Project Opensky jets http://www.projectopensky.com/ You will learn much more about tailstrikes, step-climbs, fuel management, etc.

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Hi Woody,I will also pipe in here and say that auto pilot takeoffs are not designed into FS or the real world of commercial aviation. You should do your takeoffs manually and also fly without the auto pilot for a while. You'll be amazed at how quickly your flying skills can improve.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpg

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