FSUIPC and blocking posts

[Guest]

Blimey - it's a while since I posted on here but you know what it's like, some things you just can't let go without having a say.Well we've read it explained several times about the payware, freeware features of FSUIPC but some people still don't seem to get it - so let's look at the payware side of things.>I was reading the announcement about (big shock) FSUIPC going>payware. It's funny and accurate how someone in there posted>that this hobby is becoming more expensive then golf, because>it is. People post about someone putting in all these hours>to develop a program and expect it to be free...well I hate to>break it to people but the definition of a HOBBY is something>someone does on their FREE time because they WANT to and ENJOY>it.I'm afraid if this hobby is becoming too expensive for you I would suggest that you are spending beyond your means. I hope you're not going to start blaming Pete because you've blown all your cash on flight sim add-ons. Don't blame other people for your lack of financial restraint. Unless of course your complaint boils down to the fact that you simply cannot afford 20 euros from the off?Your interpretation of a hobby is severely flawed. Collecting toy cars and building railways could be considered a hobby but it isn't free. Stamp collecting is a hobby but it isn't free. In fact, I don't really get your last point because the free you are talking about (free time) is different to free as in not costing anything.Pete has always created FSUIPC in his FREE time, because he WANTED to and because he ENJOYED it - and it was freeware.Now it would seem that FSUIPC is eating not only into Pete's free time but also his work time - and so therefore it's is now payware.Stop me now folks but did I miss a meeting?>If you want to put food on your table you get a JOB!!!Well it would seem that the work Pete is putting into FSUIPC has become almost a full-time job so it would make sense for him to start earning himself an income. No? >No one is holding a gun to Pete's head to produce FSUIPC and>the reason we get charged 25 bucks for it is because people>sit there and say "Hey I'm 100% behind you why don't you>charge 80 while you're at it!"No one ever said that so I guess that makes you just as guilty as everyone else for putting words in people's mouths. You're right, no one is holding a gun to Pete's head - he made a decision based on his own experience. >On my last note it kinda upsets me when I see one person>disagree with wanting to pay for the program and someone goes>in there and demands the post be locked. Why? Does it bother>you that someone isn't a mindless robot willing and able to>stand in line and pay for anything and everything like it's a>drug habit? More expensive then a drug habit in fact. Is it>so wrong that someone not agree with someone's decision or>policy? That's an even scarier thought then all of FS>becoming payware, the day someone can't speak their mind. >That person did not insult anyone or use any bad language they>simply made a good point.Stop wasting your money on the drugs and save it for FSUIPC ;-)>I'm not against something being payware, I'm against someone>making something as a freeware hobby for so long then suddenly>decide to charge for it because they feel they can make some>cash on it knowing people will pay for it blindly.I'm certainly not paying for FSUIPC blindly. I respect Pete's work and have had many hours of enjoyment from using it. But there's no such thing as a free lunch and I'm happy to pay Pete for his hard work and commitment. I'm sure he's more privy to the requirements of producing FSUIPC then you or I will ever be. I've never had any reason to distrust Pete in the past and I certainly don't distrust him now.>Let's hope there's light at the end of this ever darker>tunnelThere is - but not for you it seems.CheersSteve White

[Guest Daniel Pimentel]

Hey Steve:Pete shouldn't be at fault because of anyone's add-on purchases, but let's get one thing clear: If anything, we'd buy FSUIPC BECAUSE OF THE ADD-ONS. So I don't see your point, if Jason had no add-ons he wouldn't need FSUIPC in the first place. lol So if it wasn't because everyone BUYS add-ons, Pete would more than likely make a misery out of FSUIPC economically. Now, using your mentality: "I hope you're not going to start blaming the end user because Pete cannot manage and distinguish his free time and work time" :-lol Doesn't sound nice, does it? Then don't use it yourself.Daniel P.

[Guest JDiaz]

"Mrs. White in the study with a lead pipe..."Why do people make things personal? I don't know you nor do I care to this was a simple post about MY opinion if YOUR opinion is different then that is 100% fine but don't make personal attacks against people. If this hobby of his is intruding on his job time then he seriously needs to rethink his life because this is and YES this IS a hobby. This is not a way of life and this is not a REAL airline if you want to make big bucks become a pilot or an engineer for Boeing. We pay for FS to begin with and I rarely buy any payware as I am quite choosy about what I put on my computer and what I believe is worth it. Another person posted about being cheap? Again you don't know me. Don't make it personal you defeat the point of the post and it screams at your own lack of maturity.I have continually said that Pete does amazing work and I love his program this is not about not having the money or not wanting to pay the money as I have plenty of that.The whole point of this thread is about where you draw the line. If something you do for fun begins intruding on your life and your work then you need to cut back on it and if your automatic solution is to charge people for it then you look it it from the wrong angle.The other MAJOR point and more important point in this thread that has been proven by more then one person is that when people have a dissenting point of view everyone blows a fuse and makes it personal. It's not personal nor would I want to make it personal. This is about people being freely able to be against the basic issue of paying for something and not having your post blocked. The next time you want to criticize someone's view explore the issues a little further. This has nothing to do with my inability to manage what I buy or what I think is worth purchasing, money is NOT the issue. Don't screw over the community and charge for a product that you don't have the time to manage correctlyEnd of point.If you disagree I welcome your view but make it and don't make it personal.

[Guest Nortie]

Well I have to add my two cents worth as I'm known for doing in some other areas of this forum group. I understand capitalisim and I have to admit that Pete did a wonderful job of hooking us with a "needed" freeware addon for other versions of Flightsim, why not make a buck or two off something ya put time and effort into..its his software his option BUT we also know how things work in the real world.. from the majority of posts that I have seen Pete is on the losing end of the stick. See its like this, someone..somewhere will produce another interface like Petes and it will be free.. so its only a matter of time till those of us that don't agree with this money grab will have an alternative to paying the stiff price Pete has attached to his software. 5 bucks sure. as the majority of FS ussers also use addons but 20 bucks + thats crazy Pete isn't trying to just support his product put rather its quite clear make some money off this so I assume its no longer just a hobby for him but rather now a buisness and as with any buisness if ya don't like the product or the price then go elsewhere. I also fear that hacking software which is a shame but also a part of this hobby will now hit Pete's product.Bottom line.. if ya don't want to pay don't..wait.its only a matter of time till someone makes similar software that will be free.

[Guest JDiaz]

amen shaun, agree 100%

[Guest simpilot]

Pretty harsh there Steve although I am sure you chose your words somewhat carefully.I can certainly understand and empathize where all parties are coming from. I see Jason's point which simply boils down to the fact that it was free for many years and all of a sudden it's going to cost $22 USD. I see Pete's point because of the fact that he has hit hard times due to the decline in the tech area and thus is devotong more and more time to the module itself and thus would like to be compensated however, when you are saying "Stop wasting your money on the drugs and save it for FSUIPC ;-)" allbeit tongue n' cheek I personally would take a huge affront to you and your statement as it certainly appears uncalled for and to a large extent almost wipes out your other comments.I have a lot payware addons purchsed over the last several years that have been dependent upon Pete's module and frankly they should have given him a royalty for using it. Indeed we are seeing rising costs in payware and these costs will continue to increase as the developers I am sure will not be willing to absorb the price of which Pete is asking for so that is going to leave a lot of us being even more particular in terms of what we buy and and somehow weigh that intangible "pleasure benefit" which we derive from the use of not only this sim but the addon.Fortunately the choice is ours to make individualy whether to buy or not buy and if the majority of this somewhat small segment of the gaming community says no I will not pay for add-ons or FSUIPC then there will, as Jason said, inevitably be someone to take on the reins. Cheers!Richard Rice

[rhumbaflappy 113]

FSConnect, by Russel Dirks:http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=...hor=&CatID=RootSo?So... many freeware programs may be rewritten, for FS2004, using FSConnect rather than FSUIPC.Dick

[1mikel151 71]

Excellent Steve, good points!!I am sorry that the original poster and others are so upset about this, I am one of "those" that supports his move, even though I don't have many addons that require the module, which brings me to my next point, seems the ones really getting upset are the ones that are directly affected (and dependant on having a certain addon working in a different version) by NOT having this module working for FS2004......keep using FS2002, it works just fine, no one is forceing you to go to the new sim, if you choose to, then you make the decision to get a copy of the module that works in the new sim, plain and simple. I am waiting for the posts from those mad at MS because a program doesn't come with FS2004 that transfers all you old files over to the new sim, c'mon, get a clue. It is not like you are being cut off cold turkey, stick with what you have.BTW my other hobby is Alaska wildlife photography.....I live in Texas, hmmmmmm, so much for my hobby being free! LOL I don't even think needlepoint is free either.You can open the FS2004 box, install it on your PC, load it up, pick a fairly detailed aircraft, pick a nice area of the country and take a nice flight, without having to rely on any other software, the choice is yours, plain and simple, no need to condemn anyone else for your lack of enjoyment.Bottom line, you are NOT ever going to make everyone happy, way of the world, so do what you think is right and what is right for you.....Regards, Michaelhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com

[Guest edrutl]

I agree about the relative costs of the hobby compared to most. The original post referenced more expensive than golf. I pay the equivalent of an FS add-on every Saturday in greens fees for 4 hours of frustration on the golf course. Most payware addons have given me dozens, if not hundreds of hours of enjoyment. IMHO, this hobby gives more bang for the buck than any hobby out there. EdKDFW

[ErnieAlston 33]

>from the majority of posts that I have seen Pete is on the losing >end of the stick. See its like this, someone..somewhere will >produce another interface like Petes and it will be free.. so its >only a matter of time till those of us that don't agree with this >money grab >will have an alternative to paying the stiff price Pete >has attached to his software. I don't think so, The system Pete setup supports freeware, that would make ita great effort for a very small benefit to create a freeware alternative to FSUIPC .Regards.Ernie.

[ErnieAlston 33]

>So... many freeware programs may be rewritten, for FS2004, using >FSConnect rather than FSUIPC.Why would you rewrite a freeware program to use FSConnect, when all it takes is an accredition from Pete for your current program to continue working with FSUIPC in FS2004 ??Regards.Ernie.

[Guest]

Right, this is my final word on the matter...>Why do people make things personal? I don't know you nor do I>care to this was a simple post about MY opinion if YOUR>opinion is different then that is 100% fine but don't make>personal attacks against people.Get off the moral high ground and cut to the chase...If this hobby of his is>intruding on his job time then he seriously needs to rethink>his life because this is and YES this IS a hobby.Well I guess Pete will do whatever he likes regarding his own software but I'm sure he would thank you for the advice. I never disagreed that this was a hobby - I only disagreed with your interpretation of the meaning of hobby. There are buyers and sellers in all markets. Hobbies involve buying and selling all the time. Where did you get this idea that all hobbies are free? Have you ever heard of eBay? It ain't free, you know but caters a great deal for hobbyists.This is not>a way of life and this is not a REAL airline if you want to>make big bucks become a pilot or an engineer for Boeing.I'm sorry but who made you judge and jury as to what people should be doing as regards flight simulation? Your logic makes absolutely no sense - there are plenty of developers out there making a living out of simulation. Christ! I used to work for DID and we made plenty of money out of EF2000 and F22-ADF and so did third-party add-on developers. Thank God Microsoft don't follow your advice or we would have no Flight Simulator.If someone chooses to develop software for flight simulator then that is their choice and while you have the right to tell them otherwise, I fear you would be simply ignored or laughed at (or worse).>We pay for FS to begin with and I rarely buy any payware as I am>quite choosy about what I put on my computer and what I>believe is worth it.Well I'm sure you'll make an informed decision when the time is right, as FSUIPC being payware may not affect you that much so it seems.>Another person posted about being cheap? Again you don't know>me. Don't make it personal you defeat the point of the post>and it screams at your own lack of maturity.Lack of maturity? Hey, don't make personal attacks ;-) You specifically complained that this hobby was becoming too expensive (agreeing with the other poster) - don't deny it now, it's at the top of the topic for all to see.>I have continually said that Pete does amazing work and I love>his program this is not about not having the money or not>wanting to pay the money as I have plenty of that.Well go on then, treat yourself, buy FSUIPC 3 when it's released.>The whole point of this thread is about where you draw the>line. If something you do for fun begins intruding on your>life and your work then you need to cut back on it and if your>automatic solution is to charge people for it then you look it>it from the wrong angle.Well you're entitled to your opinion of course but whether or not it is relevant to Pete's circumstances I guess only Pete knows.Sorry if you take it personally, but the other bits just weren't worth replying to. You've clearly got strong views on this issue and seem to have made up your mind so all we'll end up doing is going round and round in circles. Let's agree to disagree.Cheers and ta taSteve White

[Splash_One 0]

Copying this from my other post >>>START:--------(In reply to "Anyone else think its a bit PRICEY?")"Yeah thats what I was thinking. He will make thousands and thousands of dollars... 50 people purchase it, you got $1,100. We can guess that atleast 500 people will buy it, thats $11,000 . Yes. [big]ELEVEN THOUSAND.[/big] That can be 1/10 of a persons whole yearly salary and he will be making that in just a few days.... I for one will not be buying it. Maybe if he cuts that price in half, I will consider... I hope Peter reads this. Also, hopefully this doesn't turn to be one of those plans, get everyone to love that product that you will need to have many features run, then OVERCHARGE people for it...Key parts of this post:- Five Hundred Customers = Eleven Thousand Dollars.- Overcharge.- Cut that price ($22) in half.--------------------------------------------------------------------Shame.Flame me if you want, $22 is almost half of FS9, no thanks, Peter. I'll spend that money on flying lessons...20 minutes can do wonders, ya know!Jason -----------END

[Guest]

Oh, for sure :-). However, some have to be by necessity. It wasn't long ago that I was in university and I simply couldn't afford to buy into this hobby to the degree that I would like as it is becoming. In a weird sort of way, it is a bit self-defeating as a whole to go to too much payware. Up until now, the more freeware that was out there, the more attractive simming became, and the more people got into it. That gave MS the impetus to improve FS and release better and better packages because they knew they were going to sell more of "FS 2" than they did of "FS 1". If it becomes too expensive, fewer and fewer new folks will come in (they may favour other, less expensive sims of another type), and sales may possibly drop over time on FS. That in turn will possibly cause MS to believe that FS is getting near to having run its course, and they will stop putting as much into it as they do now.Now, I'm not sure how much water my theory holds in real life, but it is another slant on things that might be worth considering (either that or it is simply the ravings of a lunatic mind :-) ).Glenn

[ErnieAlston 33]

Doubtfull he sells 500 in just a few days.Its a needs based product, most people won't buy it until they need it. To use most freeware apps you won't need to make a purchase. It will be quite some time before hit hits the 500 mark for individual sales. The bulk of the revenue likely will come from the payware accredidations.Regards.Ernie.