Sign in to follow this  
Steve Cannell

FSUIPC and blocking posts

Recommended Posts

I'm gonna make this very to the point and whoever has an issue with it can go live in North Korea where free speech is shunned upon. I've posted many many times in this forum and I do not have a history of being disruptive and I'm very supportive of this community and the great things that go on in it and I am not anti payware, go into the PMDG forum to see my support there.I was reading the announcement about (big shock) FSUIPC going payware. It's funny and accurate how someone in there posted that this hobby is becoming more expensive then golf, because it is. People post about someone putting in all these hours to develop a program and expect it to be free...well I hate to break it to people but the definition of a HOBBY is something someone does on their FREE time because they WANT to and ENJOY it. If you want to put food on your table you get a JOB!!! It is becoming ever increasingly clear that everytime something gets popular in this community someone wants to make a buck off of it.No one is holding a gun to Pete's head to produce FSUIPC and the reason we get charged 25 bucks for it is because people sit there and say "Hey I'm 100% behind you why don't you charge 80 while you're at it!"What made this community so great was that people did things out of love and passion and not to make an easy dollar or euro or peso.On my last note it kinda upsets me when I see one person disagree with wanting to pay for the program and someone goes in there and demands the post be locked. Why? Does it bother you that someone isn't a mindless robot willing and able to stand in line and pay for anything and everything like it's a drug habit? More expensive then a drug habit in fact. Is it so wrong that someone not agree with someone's decision or policy? That's an even scarier thought then all of FS becoming payware, the day someone can't speak their mind. That person did not insult anyone or use any bad language they simply made a good point.I'm not against something being payware, I'm against someone making something as a freeware hobby for so long then suddenly decide to charge for it because they feel they can make some cash on it knowing people will pay for it blindly.Let's hope there's light at the end of this ever darker tunnel

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I agree, Jason. Problem with Pete is not that he's going pay, but that he decided to do so right now, when so many add-ons depend on it. And it's not about paying blindly, but what choice do you have? Basically looks like Pete's doing this because he knows the community is dependent on it, kind of like drug dealers do. Give free doses, get the guy hooked, then charge what you will for it, he'll HAVE to buy it. And for those "You don't have to buy it if you want" people, what's the choice, flying FS right out of the box? No thank you. But I think it's really unfair that all of a sudden we have to pay for a tool as essential as FSUIPC.Daniel P.

Share this post


Link to post

You know, Pete has done a wonderfull job on his programs for years. How ungratefull can you be. These programs are getting progressively harder to make and take hundreds of hours. I feel it is time to re-imburse Pete for his work. I feel the price is modest. He couuld find another hobby to support. Then you would all gripe that 'He just let us down and quit!' You all should be thanking him for the free years instead of the upcomming pay years. You could have been paying for the last years! Thank you Pete for your work!

Share this post


Link to post

I will jump in at this point. Yes i know this post is still new, but it will expand. There will be a great deal of views on the recent annoucement of Pete deciding to charge for his FSUIPC module. All I ask of you is that when you post here with your views you:1. Keep it perspective to the subject in question2. Keep it civil Tempers can easily flare... so think before you type.RgdsAidihttp://www.vfr-flightcenter.com/avsim_sig.jpg

Share this post


Link to post

First of all you don't know me so don't call me ungrateful, let's get that straight. Second of all I never said certain products should not be payware let's get THAT straight. Third of all my gripe is that this is a HOBBY that was done out of LOVE not to pay your bills. And NO we should not have been paying for something that was freeware all along. If it's becoming such a pain to do it then pass the torch to someone who's willing to take over and trust me eventually someone will come along who learns the code and does it for free. For you to sit here and accuse people of being ungrateful or cheap is a typical ploy and argument and a very tiring cliche one at that. So before you go calling people names remember that this post was made to have a civil discussion about payware and paying for products not to be calling people names, that's uncalled for and destroys the point of my post.P.S. Than you Aidi for your post, appreciate it.

Share this post


Link to post

Aidi:Understood. If it gets hairy I'll pull out. lolDaniel Pimentel

Share this post


Link to post

Agreed. It's funny how people try to shut you up when you're just voicing your opinion.Daniel P.

Share this post


Link to post
What made this community so great was that people did things out of love and passion and not to make an easy dollar or euro or peso.
HOBBY that was done out of LOVE not to pay your bills
I agree 110%, you couldn't have said it better.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Jason,I agree with much of what you are saying. I think one of the issues with FSUIPC is that for some time now a number of payware folks have been using Pete's work without paying any royalties of any kind. So many programs now depend on FSUIPC, and without it, their programs would be so many electrons on someone's desktop rather than doing the things they do on our computers. I can see his point for that one, even though it's only been stated in a very subtle manner.There certainly is a strong trend in FS to go payware, and that seems a shame to me. There is a considerable amount of payware out there that really doesn't live up to its billing, and quite a considerable amount of freeware that goes way above and beyond the call of duty (Dash 7 - Shupe, 727 panel - Probst, etc. in the latter category). I think that perhaps one of the things this is serving to do for me, is to make FS that much more in line with the beat-up old saying, "as real as it gets". I now get very selective about what aircraft I add on, and as I'd rather go to enhanced airports, I am much more selective in where I go as well (is the scenery good enough to buy if it is payware, then I'll buy it and go there). That's much more realistic than downloading "everything that moves", and in some warped sort of way, I don't mind that. A case in point is I've always loved the 210, and Carenado's certainly looks good from the screenies. As in RL, I'll look it over very carefully before buying though. One thing I do really hate is when I pay for something and it turns out to be of substandard quality. So, I'll "shop" much more carefully than if the product were free. I'm afraid payware is here to stay, at least for a time. Poor service and/or quality will eventually weed out the bad ones (that's the huge benefit of these forums, and kudos to AVSIM, Flightsim.com, FSNordic, etc for providing them). Until then though, it is caveat emptor, unfortunately.As for people who can't seem to handle anyone disagreeing with their point of view, well I totally quit posting on any forums (save for one really good one) for a year or so because of just that. Unfortunately there is a mentality among a few that if someone doesn't agree with their personal viewpoints, the disagreer is worthy of being taken out and shot, or at the very least, heavily flamed. I suppose that is a sign of immaturity? I don't know (being perfect myself, it's hard for me to understand things like that :-hah!!). Seriously, it is a shame because it undermines the great things these forums do for a good number of people. The "problem-people" are small in number, as the vast majority of folks here are the best you'll find anywhere in any hobby. It only takes a few to wreck it though. If the person is respectful and states their viewpoints in an honest fashion and sticks to the issues (i.e. doesn't make it personal), then no one has any stand to take them down for it. Too bad it doesn't work that way all the time, but I guess (you know what) happens.Good post Jason, thank - and by the way - you do some pretty terrific work yourself :-). I've seen some of your repaints - they're great.Glenn

Share this post


Link to post

Agreed 100%I spent countless late night hours on software like fsgame/unaaf/aafplus/aedit/msl/fmc's/squawkbox server. I did that, and I will continue to do that because it's fun and I want to support this community. I have a job to pay my bills and I'll put my hobby time into my hobby. My software will always be free.Marty

Share this post


Link to post

Glad others agree. I'm not putting Pete or his work down his FSUIPC program has made so many things possible. In my opinion payware developers should not be getting a free ride from Pete on his program if anything Pete should charge PAYWARE developers for use of his program and leave the freeware community free and/or donations. I think to charge people across the board is harsh and defeats the original intention of his program. So I agree with others here payware should be paying for us of FSUIPC, maybe have a version of it that's simply for developer use that developers need to purhcase in order to make their product compatible. Some will argue that he's gonna have two versions with the the new program but the free part hardly is very functional.Anyways again my two cents, keep it civil guys, different opinions from my own are WELCOME, but making it personal is NOT.P.S. Thank you Glenn for the compliment, glad you like the repaints! Look out for some more soon!

Share this post


Link to post

I also think that payware developers shouldn't get a free ride with FSUIPC, but wat is happening now is a very difficult situation. Payware developers have counted on FSUIPC, while they could have created their own interface. Saying that a payware FSUIPC will not harm end users is simply not true. We know that payware developers are running a tight budget. I don't know what Pete charges to payware developers, but you can bet who's going to pay it. Already we see a slow but steady increase in payware price, and this is just going to add to the other excuses to lift prices.

Share this post


Link to post

It is my OPINION that many people are cheap.JimActiveSky Support

Share this post


Link to post

> I don't know what Pete charges to payware developers, but you can >bet who's going to pay it. Already we see a slow but steady >increase in payware price, and this is just going to add to the >other excuses to >lift prices.Whatever price it is, it still cheaper than what the developer would charge you if they had to develop their own IPC module to do the same job.You seriously don't expect a developer to incur extra development costs, and not be compensated for it in the purchase price ?The profit margins for many FS add-ons is pretty slim already.Regards.Ernie.

Share this post


Link to post

There is only one problem that makes me disagree, all the freeware developers can ask for a free key. So I can't see what is the problem about FSUIPC going in to payware. I'm sure that you agree that the rest of FSUIPC like joystick calibration can go payware without any problem.Jos

Share this post


Link to post

Blimey - it's a while since I posted on here but you know what it's like, some things you just can't let go without having a say.Well we've read it explained several times about the payware, freeware features of FSUIPC but some people still don't seem to get it - so let's look at the payware side of things.>I was reading the announcement about (big shock) FSUIPC going>payware. It's funny and accurate how someone in there posted>that this hobby is becoming more expensive then golf, because>it is. People post about someone putting in all these hours>to develop a program and expect it to be free...well I hate to>break it to people but the definition of a HOBBY is something>someone does on their FREE time because they WANT to and ENJOY>it.I'm afraid if this hobby is becoming too expensive for you I would suggest that you are spending beyond your means. I hope you're not going to start blaming Pete because you've blown all your cash on flight sim add-ons. Don't blame other people for your lack of financial restraint. Unless of course your complaint boils down to the fact that you simply cannot afford 20 euros from the off?Your interpretation of a hobby is severely flawed. Collecting toy cars and building railways could be considered a hobby but it isn't free. Stamp collecting is a hobby but it isn't free. In fact, I don't really get your last point because the free you are talking about (free time) is different to free as in not costing anything.Pete has always created FSUIPC in his FREE time, because he WANTED to and because he ENJOYED it - and it was freeware.Now it would seem that FSUIPC is eating not only into Pete's free time but also his work time - and so therefore it's is now payware.Stop me now folks but did I miss a meeting?>If you want to put food on your table you get a JOB!!!Well it would seem that the work Pete is putting into FSUIPC has become almost a full-time job so it would make sense for him to start earning himself an income. No? >No one is holding a gun to Pete's head to produce FSUIPC and>the reason we get charged 25 bucks for it is because people>sit there and say "Hey I'm 100% behind you why don't you>charge 80 while you're at it!"No one ever said that so I guess that makes you just as guilty as everyone else for putting words in people's mouths. You're right, no one is holding a gun to Pete's head - he made a decision based on his own experience. >On my last note it kinda upsets me when I see one person>disagree with wanting to pay for the program and someone goes>in there and demands the post be locked. Why? Does it bother>you that someone isn't a mindless robot willing and able to>stand in line and pay for anything and everything like it's a>drug habit? More expensive then a drug habit in fact. Is it>so wrong that someone not agree with someone's decision or>policy? That's an even scarier thought then all of FS>becoming payware, the day someone can't speak their mind. >That person did not insult anyone or use any bad language they>simply made a good point.Stop wasting your money on the drugs and save it for FSUIPC ;-)>I'm not against something being payware, I'm against someone>making something as a freeware hobby for so long then suddenly>decide to charge for it because they feel they can make some>cash on it knowing people will pay for it blindly.I'm certainly not paying for FSUIPC blindly. I respect Pete's work and have had many hours of enjoyment from using it. But there's no such thing as a free lunch and I'm happy to pay Pete for his hard work and commitment. I'm sure he's more privy to the requirements of producing FSUIPC then you or I will ever be. I've never had any reason to distrust Pete in the past and I certainly don't distrust him now.>Let's hope there's light at the end of this ever darker>tunnelThere is - but not for you it seems.CheersSteve White

Share this post


Link to post

Hey Steve:Pete shouldn't be at fault because of anyone's add-on purchases, but let's get one thing clear: If anything, we'd buy FSUIPC BECAUSE OF THE ADD-ONS. So I don't see your point, if Jason had no add-ons he wouldn't need FSUIPC in the first place. lol So if it wasn't because everyone BUYS add-ons, Pete would more than likely make a misery out of FSUIPC economically. Now, using your mentality: "I hope you're not going to start blaming the end user because Pete cannot manage and distinguish his free time and work time" :-lol Doesn't sound nice, does it? Then don't use it yourself.Daniel P.

Share this post


Link to post

"Mrs. White in the study with a lead pipe..."Why do people make things personal? I don't know you nor do I care to this was a simple post about MY opinion if YOUR opinion is different then that is 100% fine but don't make personal attacks against people. If this hobby of his is intruding on his job time then he seriously needs to rethink his life because this is and YES this IS a hobby. This is not a way of life and this is not a REAL airline if you want to make big bucks become a pilot or an engineer for Boeing. We pay for FS to begin with and I rarely buy any payware as I am quite choosy about what I put on my computer and what I believe is worth it. Another person posted about being cheap? Again you don't know me. Don't make it personal you defeat the point of the post and it screams at your own lack of maturity.I have continually said that Pete does amazing work and I love his program this is not about not having the money or not wanting to pay the money as I have plenty of that.The whole point of this thread is about where you draw the line. If something you do for fun begins intruding on your life and your work then you need to cut back on it and if your automatic solution is to charge people for it then you look it it from the wrong angle.The other MAJOR point and more important point in this thread that has been proven by more then one person is that when people have a dissenting point of view everyone blows a fuse and makes it personal. It's not personal nor would I want to make it personal. This is about people being freely able to be against the basic issue of paying for something and not having your post blocked. The next time you want to criticize someone's view explore the issues a little further. This has nothing to do with my inability to manage what I buy or what I think is worth purchasing, money is NOT the issue. Don't screw over the community and charge for a product that you don't have the time to manage correctlyEnd of point.If you disagree I welcome your view but make it and don't make it personal.

Share this post


Link to post

Well I have to add my two cents worth as I'm known for doing in some other areas of this forum group. I understand capitalisim and I have to admit that Pete did a wonderful job of hooking us with a "needed" freeware addon for other versions of Flightsim, why not make a buck or two off something ya put time and effort into..its his software his option BUT we also know how things work in the real world.. from the majority of posts that I have seen Pete is on the losing end of the stick. See its like this, someone..somewhere will produce another interface like Petes and it will be free.. so its only a matter of time till those of us that don't agree with this money grab will have an alternative to paying the stiff price Pete has attached to his software. 5 bucks sure. as the majority of FS ussers also use addons but 20 bucks + thats crazy Pete isn't trying to just support his product put rather its quite clear make some money off this so I assume its no longer just a hobby for him but rather now a buisness and as with any buisness if ya don't like the product or the price then go elsewhere. I also fear that hacking software which is a shame but also a part of this hobby will now hit Pete's product.Bottom line.. if ya don't want to pay don't..wait.its only a matter of time till someone makes similar software that will be free.

Share this post


Link to post

Pretty harsh there Steve although I am sure you chose your words somewhat carefully.I can certainly understand and empathize where all parties are coming from. I see Jason's point which simply boils down to the fact that it was free for many years and all of a sudden it's going to cost $22 USD. I see Pete's point because of the fact that he has hit hard times due to the decline in the tech area and thus is devotong more and more time to the module itself and thus would like to be compensated however, when you are saying "Stop wasting your money on the drugs and save it for FSUIPC ;-)" allbeit tongue n' cheek I personally would take a huge affront to you and your statement as it certainly appears uncalled for and to a large extent almost wipes out your other comments.I have a lot payware addons purchsed over the last several years that have been dependent upon Pete's module and frankly they should have given him a royalty for using it. Indeed we are seeing rising costs in payware and these costs will continue to increase as the developers I am sure will not be willing to absorb the price of which Pete is asking for so that is going to leave a lot of us being even more particular in terms of what we buy and and somehow weigh that intangible "pleasure benefit" which we derive from the use of not only this sim but the addon.Fortunately the choice is ours to make individualy whether to buy or not buy and if the majority of this somewhat small segment of the gaming community says no I will not pay for add-ons or FSUIPC then there will, as Jason said, inevitably be someone to take on the reins. Cheers!Richard Rice

Share this post


Link to post

Excellent Steve, good points!!I am sorry that the original poster and others are so upset about this, I am one of "those" that supports his move, even though I don't have many addons that require the module, which brings me to my next point, seems the ones really getting upset are the ones that are directly affected (and dependant on having a certain addon working in a different version) by NOT having this module working for FS2004......keep using FS2002, it works just fine, no one is forceing you to go to the new sim, if you choose to, then you make the decision to get a copy of the module that works in the new sim, plain and simple. I am waiting for the posts from those mad at MS because a program doesn't come with FS2004 that transfers all you old files over to the new sim, c'mon, get a clue. It is not like you are being cut off cold turkey, stick with what you have.BTW my other hobby is Alaska wildlife photography.....I live in Texas, hmmmmmm, so much for my hobby being free! LOL I don't even think needlepoint is free either.You can open the FS2004 box, install it on your PC, load it up, pick a fairly detailed aircraft, pick a nice area of the country and take a nice flight, without having to rely on any other software, the choice is yours, plain and simple, no need to condemn anyone else for your lack of enjoyment.Bottom line, you are NOT ever going to make everyone happy, way of the world, so do what you think is right and what is right for you.....Regards, Michaelhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com

Share this post


Link to post

I agree about the relative costs of the hobby compared to most. The original post referenced more expensive than golf. I pay the equivalent of an FS add-on every Saturday in greens fees for 4 hours of frustration on the golf course. Most payware addons have given me dozens, if not hundreds of hours of enjoyment. IMHO, this hobby gives more bang for the buck than any hobby out there. EdKDFW

Share this post


Link to post

>from the majority of posts that I have seen Pete is on the losing >end of the stick. See its like this, someone..somewhere will >produce another interface like Petes and it will be free.. so its >only a matter of time till those of us that don't agree with this >money grab >will have an alternative to paying the stiff price Pete >has attached to his software. I don't think so, The system Pete setup supports freeware, that would make ita great effort for a very small benefit to create a freeware alternative to FSUIPC .Regards.Ernie.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this