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WebMaximus

A problem with the ILS at Aerosoft ENVA (Trondheim) airport scenery

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Just bought the Aerosoft Trondheim (ENVA) scenery and did my first flight into this airport in the northern Norway yesterday using the NGX and when I was about to catch the ILS into rwy 27 the ILS never kicked in. I could see both the localizer and the glideslope start moving looking at the PFD but the flight modes never changed.

 

No you probably wonder why I ask about this problem in here because first thought would of course be there's a problem with the ILS in this add-on airport scenery and that was my first thought as well since I haven't seen this problem flying the NGX into more than 20 other payware add-on airports  but when I posted about this problem in Aerosoft's support forum I received an answer from them they tested the scenery with the default FSX Cessna aircraft and couldn't replicate the problem which would suggest the problem is with the NGX. I also before posting in their support forum did a search and found an old thread where someone else had the very same problem with the same scenery when flying the NGX. Unfortunately that old thread didn't include any solution to the problem but again it was suggested that the user should try a different aircraft.

 

So...since I do all my flying in the NGX and would like to be able to use the add-on scenery I just bought for Trondheim I ask in here as well. Anyone else using Aerosoft's Trondheim scenery when flying the NGX and if so did you have any problem with the ILS? So far I only tried the ILS approach into rwy 27 but will try the ILS into rwy 09 as well.

 

Here's the thread over at Aerosoft support forum

 

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/70380-problem-with-the-ils-at-enva/

 

Thanks for any input guys!

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Sure, I'll do that next time if I don't find the problem until then.

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Hello Richard,  If you are using Navigraph charts etc., Tronheim airport is listed as having to be updated, I don't know what the previous ILS radio signal for RW27 was but the current ILS is 109.9 which may have a bearing for you to check with what you are using.  Hope this helped.  Richard Welsh.

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(...) and when I was about to catch the ILS into rwy 27 the ILS never kicked in. I could see both the localizer and the glideslope start moving looking at the PFD but the flight modes never changed. (...)

 

 

Sorry, if this sounds stupid or even offensive:

 

Did you hit either LOC or APP on the MCP? Were the LOC and G/S modes armed in your PFD?

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No offense taken ;-) and yes, APP was armed and both the LOC and G/S was armed looking at the FMA and yes I'm using the latest AIRAC from Navigraph showing the ILS freq as 109.9

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I haven't had this problem at Trondheim. The problem I have there is (useing NGX) at about 8 miles out FSX would pause for approx. 5 seconds then sometimes crash. 

 

I believe this to be a conflict with UTX Europe.

 

Back to your problem..... when FSX doesn't crash there the NGX captures the localiser and glideslope fine.

 

Sorry I can't help.

 

Martin.

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Could you post some screenshots of the cockpit on the ILS? This to check the used settings.

 

 

I'd like to see a screenshot of the PFD/FMA now, when the LOC capture just has been missed.

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I haven't had this problem at Trondheim. The problem I have there is (useing NGX) at about 8 miles out FSX would pause for approx. 5 seconds then sometimes crash. 

 

I believe this to be a conflict with UTX Europe.

 

Back to your problem..... when FSX doesn't crash there the NGX captures the localiser and glideslope fine.

 

Sorry I can't help.

 

Martin.

 

Very weird this indeed. I also have UTX installed and FS Global Ultimate X mesh for Europe but I haven't seen any crashes so far and if I must choose between that and a faulty ILS I prefer the ILS issue for sure ;-) Too bad though you have this problem yourself!

 

I have someone who is very skillful when it comes to these types of issues so if I'm lucky he'll eventually be able to find out what's wrong with the ILS in my case.

Could it be that you have additional scenert of this airport in the addon scenery file?

 

Nope...never installed any scenery for Norway before this one except for Aerosoft ENGM which works just fine in all regards. Then I of course have mesh (FS Global Ultimate X) and landclass (UTX) installed for Europe so that will of course also cover the ENVA area but I doubt that would cause any problems with the ILS but who knows...

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I'd like to see a screenshot of the PFD/FMA now, when the LOC capture just has been missed.

 

Here's a screenshot showing both the G/S and LOC as active looking at the PFD and as you can see APP is armed and so is VOR/LOC and G/S looking at the FMA, inbound course is set and ILS freq also set (not seen in pic though but 109.9 is set on both sides).

 

I grabbed this screenshot from a video clip because I actaully recorded this flight so I might even upload the ILS approach segment of the movie clip to YouTube so you'll be able to see the problem not only by looking at a pic but with full motion but I don't have the time to fix this right now but maybe later today if it could help you understand what the problem is.

 

ILS%20problem%20at%20ENVA%20from%20the%2

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Don't  know if  it  this is the problem, noticed  that command  b is not illuminated as per command a?

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From what direction do you fly to FAF? Have you tried to intercept localizer with HDG SEL?It seems you're paralleled to LOC and have G/S inhibit before LOC capture option turned on. That's why it don't want to activate this modes.

ANP should be ok here, but the problem can also be in airport or airac coordinates in this case.

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Don't  know if  it  this is the problem, noticed  that command  b is not illuminated as per command a?

 

Well spotted but I doubt that would be the problem since you don't need both CMD A and B to simply capture the ILS.

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From what direction do you fly to FAF? Have you tried to intercept localizer with HDG SEL?It seems you're paralleled to LOC and have G/S inhibit before LOC capture option turned on. That's why it don't want to activate this modes.

ANP should be ok here, but the problem can also be in airport or airac coordinates in this case.

 

I was coming in from the SE in LNAV mode, haven't tried HDG SEL yet.

 

Reason I was not on the localizer but a bit left of it was simply because how LNAV was following the route until I disconnected the autopilot to fly the approach manually since the ILS didn't capture. Appearently the route flown by LNAV was not 100% spot on looking at the localizer.

I'd give the FSX registry repair fix a try.

 

Hmm...never had to try that one as far as I can recall but do you really think that would have anything to do with the NGX for some reason not capturing the ILS for one single airport?

 

I might be wrong but I thought that registry fix was something you can test if the path to FSX for some reason has become corrupt in the registry...don't see how that would have anything to do with an ILS approach...?

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Reason I was not on the localizer but a bit left of it was simply because how LNAV was following the route until I disconnected the autopilot to fly the approach manually since the ILS didn't capture. Appearently the route flown by LNAV was not 100% spot on looking at the localizer.

 

Then you probably never actually intersected the ILS as far as I can see, resulting in this behaviour. Annoying, but normal, in that that this does happen. Should you happen to run into this problem again, just make sure that you give autopilot a chance before turning to final. Just leaving it in HDG SEL before the last turn should do the trick.

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I'm with the others that, had you flown this in HDG mode, it would've captured.

[EDIT: Looked back at the charts on IPPC and they were different from the charts I found.  The suggestion to force the capture via HDG still stands, however.]

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Very weird this indeed. I also have UTX installed and FS Global Ultimate X mesh for Europe but I haven't seen any crashes so far and if I must choose between that and a faulty ILS I prefer the ILS issue for sure ;-) Too bad though you have this problem yourself!

 

Sorry for bending the topic!!!

 

Check the Aerosoft Forums. I'm not the only one!!

 

Martin.

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Well, usually I never have any problems having the NGX capture the ILS following the LNAV route but I will definitely try HDG SEL instead tomorrow and see if that does the trick!

 

Will report back and let you know.

 

@ Martin - OK, guess I should consider myself lucky then only having problems with the ILS. Strange why this airport scenery would cause such big problems considering it's a fairly small and simple scenery compared to many other airport sceneries.

 

Another thing I've noticed with help from someone is that the developers behind the ENVA scenery to a certain extent seem to have chosen a path away from FSX standard such as where to place files and how to name them etc. For instance when I tried to disable the scenery by unchecking everything related to Aerosoft ENVA in the FSX scenery library I got major elevation problems and I couldn't understand why since I just unchecked everything related to the Aerosoft ENVA scenery and thought that would bring me back to default FSX scenery for ENVA but it didn't. The reason was that the developers have chosen to place one single file in one of the default FSX scenery folders and if I didn't disable that one as well manually by renaming it I would get these elevation problems...

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The FAT to TD (109.9) is 268°. Could that be the fault?

 

Got 267 from EFB and someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think one degree on the inbound course would cause the a problem capturing the ILS, only that I would approach the runway 1 degree from the wrong direction so to say.

 

I also have the setting in the NGX enabled where it will correct the inbound course to match what is in FSX since that and what you see on the updated charts isn't always the same.

 

Came to think of another thing about capture or not capture...wouldn't the fact that I saw both the LOC and G/S move on my PFD indicate I indeed was within the ILS distance and angle?

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Did some more searching on my problem and quickly found out I'm not the first person with problems capturing the ILS for runway 27 at Aerosoft ENVA. For example I found this old thread about the very same problem I have so something is definitely fishy with the Aerosoft ENVA scenery.

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/356209-enva-rwy-27-ils-localizer/

 

Will be most interesting to perform some more testing tomorrow!

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Came to think of another thing about capture or not capture...wouldn't the fact that I saw both the LOC and G/S move on my PFD indicate I indeed was within the ILS distance and angle?

 

No.

 

You were within the correct service volume to receive a signal, yes.  Just because you can see the indicators move however, doesn't mean the autopilot knows to switch from the one commanded mode to the other.

 

Remember, computers a dumb.  They can't think for themselves and read minds.  There are several movies that describe why (they take over the world and kill everyone - as in Terminator, Matrix, and so on).  Having the aircraft on LNAV is telling the aircraft that it should follow the LNAV course and keep doing it.  If the LOC remains to the right side of the aircraft (as is in your picture), probably down to about the threshold, it won't arbitrarily decide to jump off of its stable tracking of the LNAV course, to jump onto the LOC course.  The computer is just following what it's being told: follow LNAV until you intercept the LOC (within some tolerance - but you apparently didn't hit that tolerance.)

 

As I mentioned earlier, had you been on HDG SEL, and on an intercept heading, it probably would've been just fine.

 

I know that side of the pond is all about magenta-lining-it, but sometimes you gotta step in and ensure the computer does what it needs to do.  Automation is meant to assist you in tasks, not do the job for you.  If it starts to screw up, step in (take it off LNAV), backhand it (put it on an intercept heading via HDG SEL), and tell it to get with the program (and make sure APP is armed.)

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Plus one for Kyle's explanation:

 

I remember my NGX in LNAV flying so precisely that it would NOT cross the extended centreline. That is, it would not intercept the LOC, just flying parallel to it with a very small offset.

 

I can confirm it takes a genuine interception to activate the LOC mode.

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