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Interesting encounter in Swedish fjord:

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Can someone explain to me how "defense officials" can be sceptical when one of the passengers in the Cessna actually FILMED THE INCIDENT ? :-hmmm What kind of idiots are we employing in the military these days ?Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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Most such incidents are caused by stupidity on part of the civillian pilot...Usually it is them intruding in clearly marked low-flying areas or no-fly zones, then blaming the military for near accidents (or worse).For example, last year an ultralight crashed into a Belgian F-16 near Leeuwarden AB (EHLE) in the Netherlands.The pilot had rented the ultralight and taken off into (to him) unfamiliar airspace without so much as a look at a chart (which clearly marks the low-flying corridor which has been there for decades), blundered into the low-flying corridor without looking for oncoming traffic (he was probably too busy looking at the ground rushing past at 50 knots). The F-16 coming in at near sonic speed could not avoid him in time. End result, 3 dead and 2 aircraft destroyed.The next of kin of the UL pilot tried to blame it all first on the Belgian airforce, then on the Dutch airforce and finally on the rental agent.They were not successful of course.

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So why didn't the F15 pilots report the incident ? I have a theory........"let's hope that the Cessna pilot chooses to keep his mouth shut, and then we'll be OK".Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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More likely he did report it, but not to the civilian controllers...AFAIK they're under orders to generate contact reports with unidentified aliens you know :-lol

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hey hey, check your maps! Geirangerfjorden is located in NORWAY.NORWAY is not a part of Sweden.Jan Roar R

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I wouldn't have told anyone and just enjoyed what happened. The fighters maybe were just crusin. I would love to have been there.JimCYWG

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>Can someone explain to me how "defense officials" can be>sceptical when one of the passengers in the Cessna actually>FILMED THE INCIDENT ? :-hmmm What kind of idiots are we>employing in the military these days ?>>Chris Low,>ENGLAND.>Probably the same kind that 60 years ago kept you from now having to speak German instead of English.Bill

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Well the pilot says that he had been flying almost his entire life. I guess he didn't know anything about Mach 2 capable fighters. My family is from Norway origionally and I have a few of my family on that side in the RNoAF. I remember hearing from them that this fjord and the surrounding area is a large NATO training area. NATO forces use Norway for training because of its diverse, artic like climate. It is perfect for Mach 2 flying do the the sparse population in the northern, central part of the country. American fighter pilots are not idiots, they know if they do something like this it will end their flying careers. Now I have a questions for this newspaper and the pilot. One: How do they know which base it the F-15's are operating out of? They could easily be from Germany or England with tanker support. Two: What was an experienced pilot doing in a NATO training area in the first place, these areas are highly dangerous and restricted to civilian aircraft. You can see on the photo from the site the fjord had just taken a bend. So think of it, going somewhere around 300 knots, a small GA plane going about 75-80 knots. The closure rate is extremly fast, maybe just 10 seconds. Now in the tight confines of that fjord the F-15 pilots would not have begun evasive action. The fact that fjords are deep, and have VERY steep walls on all sides, if they did try to avoid they might of hit each other, hit the GA aircraft, or smash into one of the fjords walls. IMHO The F-15 pilots acted with safety in the mind of themselves, and the GA aircraft. BUT this fjord is the most popular and historic of Norway, cruise lines go up and down it all the time. I know the NATO training area is close but they should not of been in tha fjord. But every fjord looks almost the same in Norway they could of easily been mistaken about the route.

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>Now I have a questions for this newspaper and the pilot. >One: How do they know which base the F-15's are operating out of? >They could easily be from Germany or England with tanker support. >Two: What was an experienced pilot doing in a NATO training area in the first place, these areas are highly dangerous and restricted to>civilian aircraft. I'm not from the newspaper nor am i the pilot, but:1: RNoAF (the Royal Norwegian Air Force) reported that the two F-15E's were operating out of Orland AB in Norway as part of a NATO exercise in the area....2. The area is NOT a designated military low-flying area, and is open to all aircrafts... The area is also uncontrolled airspace, so no traffic-information was available for the three aircrafts...

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>>Probably the same kind that 60 years ago kept you from now>having to speak German instead of English.>Bill>I'll highlight the pertinent words for you Bill:>>Can someone explain to me how "defense officials" can be>>sceptical when one of the passengers in the Cessna actually>>FILMED THE INCIDENT ? :-hmmm What kind of idiots are we>>employing in the military these days ?Jeez, climb down of the box!Paulhttp://www.strontiumdog.plus.com/sbird.jpgOfficially licenced by British Airways plc for use of name and logo[p]AMD XP2800+ Barton, Gigabyte GA-7NNXP nForce2, 1Gig Crucial PC3200 DDR 400MHz, Gainward 128 MB GF4-4200, SB Audigy, 3 x WD Caviar SE[/p]

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>>Jeez, climb down of the box!>>PaulThe people who actually need to climb down of any kind of box are the journalist and those crying for military scalps trying to make a mountain out of this anthill.

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>The people who actually need to climb down of any kind of box>are the journalist and those crying for military scalps trying>to make a mountain out of this anthill.Amen to that.

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At least they didn't hit the Cessna!An incident in Florida a year or so back resulted in a mid-air when two figher aircraft (don't remember the type) were doing low altitude, high speed maneuvers. Only problem was they had mis-programmed their TACAN systems and were not on the designated millitary training route they were planning to follow. They entered Tampa Class C airspace, as I recall, without a clearance before one of them was involved in a mid-air collision with a C172, piloted by an ATP-rated pilot. The Cessna pilot was given a traffic alert by the approach controller, but the fighter jets were travelling at a very high rate of speed. The figher pilot at first thought a bird had been ingested into one of his engines and ultimately ejected safely. The Cessna pilot was killed.Millitary pilots are not infalliable ...John

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..totally!Cheers,Paulhttp://www.strontiumdog.plus.com/sbird.jpgOfficially licenced by British Airways plc for use of name and logo[p]AMD XP2800+ Barton, Gigabyte GA-7NNXP nForce2, 1Gig Crucial PC3200 DDR 400MHz, Gainward 128 MB GF4-4200, SB Audigy, 3 x WD Caviar SE[/p]

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Well it depends on the situation. If the military aircraft were on a AAS (Active Air Scramble) they don't need authentication to go through airspace although they are suspossed to tell the controllers so they can move civilian traffic out of the way. Take 9/11 for example, just minutes after the first aircraft hit the WTC fighters were being scrambled from bases across the US with live weapons on board. About the one in Norway I know there is an area NEAR that fjord, to the north I think, but they should never have been there. As I said before alot of fjords in Norway look alike, and traveling at 500 knots you can't just turn on a dime. Yes military pilots are infallible, but the closer rate of a 100 knot Cessna and a 500 knot F-15 Eagle makes not to much time to think the best way to go around him. Ultimately the F-15 pilots acted accordingly and prevented a mishap. The idea of *buzzing* a small aircraft with a high preformace fighter will ground a pilot permanently, no ifs, ands of buts. One time a F-14 pilot buzzed a carrier at a 90 degree bank on the deck, he got grounded for 30 days and restricted to the ship for the rest of the deployment I think.

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In the accident I mentioned, the F16s busted the Tampa Class C airspace."The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows: the failure of the F-16 flight lead pilot and F-16 accident pilot to maintain an adequate visual lookout while maneuvering. Factors contributing to the accident were: the F-16 flight lead pilot

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Didn't bother the policeman in the pig pen!!!. click on article lower down on the same page. UnbelievablePaul Gardner

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"Probably the same kind that 60 years ago kept you from now having to speak German instead of English."Hmm, looks like a winner for the 2003 Patronising W**ker Award. Congratulations Bill!!! Next time someone wonders why Americans are considered arrogant, we know who to direct them to.

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I have a theory........"let's hope that the Cessna pilot chooses to keep his mouth shut, and then we'll be OK".you don't sound particularly open minded about this. You decided before you even read the story to blame the military pilot. Right?

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