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Todd Moore

737 NGX Autoland?

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Reading in the tutorial, it says that if I want to do an autoland, I have to select both command buttons.  If I press the second command button, the first one goes out.  How can I get both to be activated at the same time?

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I have waited for the approach lite to light, I thought that was all I needed.  I will try again once I am fully engaged on the ils.

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You need to tune both nav radios to ILS freq, both MCP course to ILS course, and press APP button first.

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What I do:

 

Set VREF and place Course and ILS frequencies in their respective locations.

On approach, set VOR/LOC until the LOC activates on the screen. Then hit the APP button until you see that G/S lights up. Then and only then do I hit the 2nd A/P button.

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Ok, I just flew a short flight from KMDW to KORD.  I got on the approach for 27L, ILS fully engaged, and it still will not light the second command button.


nevermind, I didn't see the post saying I needed to tune both radios to the approach frequency....ok, back to square one...lol

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Ok, I followed all of your instructions.  I tuned both radios to the ils freq, set the course to runway heading on both course settings, and I pressed the app button, then the second command button, and it STILL didn't work!

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Todd,

 

What modes are annunciated at the top of your PFD when you attempt to engage the second autopilot? (both green and white modes).

 

Remember the lights on the mode control panel buttons aren't the key reference for what mode(s) the autopilot is in, the answer to your problem may lie in what is showing on the PFD.

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did you remember the VOR/LOC?

 

You should only press the second AP button once the PFD says at the top:

 

LOC

 

G/S

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Also make sure there's really an ILS there in the FSX world - if you see FMC SPD | FAC | G/P  or something like that in the FMA that's a good clue that you don't actually have an ILS tuned - FAC and G/P are the Integrated Approach Navigation modes - if you see them when you think you have an ILS tuned it probably means there is no ILS there in the FSX scenery or the frequency in the scenery is different from what's present in the real world and in the navdata. (you'd check the FSX map to confirm this)

 

Also guys - you don't need LOC and G/S active to be able to arm the second A/P CMD. You need both radios tuned to the ILS, both courses set and APP mode armed. The modes can be in white and it'll still allow the second A/P to arm.

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Ok, I followed all of your instructions.  I tuned both radios to the ils freq, set the course to runway heading on both course settings, and I pressed the app button, then the second command button, and it STILL didn't work!

I will attempt to help you.

First of all just before takeoff one thing you must do is turn on BOTH FD switches, and turn on the captains FD switch first, which will make the captains switch the master.

In the EFIS control panel, click the center knob of the BARO knob in order to return to altitudes, instead of flight levels above 6000 feet. This is assuming you were previously flying above 6000 feet. 

There are some steps that I am not including since I am assuming you know them, and have used them.

Enter ILS frequency for the specific runway you are landing at, which you can find in the FMC APPROACH REF page.

Press TFR switch to make both radios active on the ILS frequency.

If you want to use the head up display, press the RWY button on the left side of HGS controller until it shows the elevation of the runway.

Press the RWY button again and set the actual runway length. In the MCP enter the localizer front course into BOTH captain, and First Officers course window.

The ILS frequency and course should be visible on the left side of the PFD.

Press the CMB B to arm the autoland mode. Both should be lit up.

Like I already stated, I left out steps since I assume you know what you are doing, and what may be left to do.

Good flying.

P.S. I think turning on both FD switches I believe is critical in order for both CMD switches to stay activated.

Also make sure there's really an ILS there in the FSX world - if you see FMC SPD | FAC | G/P  or something like that in the FMA that's a good clue that you don't actually have an ILS tuned - FAC and G/P are the Integrated Approach Navigation modes - if you see them when you think you have an ILS tuned it probably means there is no ILS there in the FSX scenery or the frequency in the scenery is different from what's present in the real world and in the navdata. (you'd check the FSX map to confirm this)

 

Also guys - you don't need LOC and G/S active to be able to arm the second A/P CMD. You need both radios tuned to the ILS, both courses set and APP mode armed. The modes can be in white and it'll still allow the second A/P to arm.

I am a rank amateur, and in no way am I trying to contradict you, but isn't the switching on of both FD switches necessary to allow both CMD switches to be armed?

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Also make sure there's really an ILS there in the FSX world - if you see FMC SPD | FAC | G/P  or something like that in the FMA that's a good clue that you don't actually have an ILS tuned - FAC and G/P are the Integrated Approach Navigation modes - if you see them when you think you have an ILS tuned it probably means there is no ILS there in the FSX scenery or the frequency in the scenery is different from what's present in the real world and in the navdata. (you'd check the FSX map to confirm this)

 

Also guys - you don't need LOC and G/S active to be able to arm the second A/P CMD. You need both radios tuned to the ILS, both courses set and APP mode armed. The modes can be in white and it'll still allow the second A/P to arm.

 

Thanks Ryan! That's news to me... maybe I'm doing too much to try to do ILS landings.

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Todd,

 

What modes are annunciated at the top of your PFD when you attempt to engage the second autopilot? (both green and white modes).

 

Remember the lights on the mode control panel buttons aren't the key reference for what mode(s) the autopilot is in, the answer to your problem may lie in what is showing on the PFD.

What is annunciated at the top of the PFD should be irrelevant at the point just before landing, since when entering a valid airport, using valid nav data should have presented him with valid ILS info even before takeoff. Isn't that the case?

Thanks Ryan! That's news to me... maybe I'm doing too much to try to do ILS landings.

Isn't Todd's issue not have even occurred had he had a valid route in the first place when configuring the CDU before takeoff?  If that is the case, then Todd should have seen that he did not have a valid route even before takeoff.

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Virge, just a reminder that posts should be signed with your full name. :)

 

What I was trying to establish for the OP was that approach was definitely armed, as it is one of the requirements to allow the second AP to be engaged.

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Virge, just a reminder that posts should be signed with your full name. :)

 

What I was trying to establish for the OP was that approach was definitely armed, as it is one of the requirements to allow the second AP to be engaged.

Thanks for the heads up.

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I am a rank amateur, and in no way am I trying to contradict you, but isn't the switching on of both FD switches necessary to allow both CMD switches to be armed?

I don't think you're contradicting Ryan if he never said the opposite.

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Ok, first...I use FS2Crew, and the FO arms both of the FD switches.  I do not know what the HGS controller is.  I did enter the rwy heading into both of the course knobs when I attempted to do this, as well as putting the ILS freq into both of the radios.

 

I will attempt to help you.

First of all just before takeoff one thing you must do is turn on BOTH FD switches, and turn on the captains FD switch first, which will make the captains switch the master.

In the EFIS control panel, click the center knob of the BARO knob in order to return to altitudes, instead of flight levels above 6000 feet. This is assuming you were previously flying above 6000 feet. 

There are some steps that I am not including since I am assuming you know them, and have used them.

Enter ILS frequency for the specific runway you are landing at, which you can find in the FMC APPROACH REF page.

Press TFR switch to make both radios active on the ILS frequency.

If you want to use the head up display, press the RWY button on the left side of HGS controller until it shows the elevation of the runway.

Press the RWY button again and set the actual runway length. In the MCP enter the localizer front course into BOTH captain, and First Officers course window.

The ILS frequency and course should be visible on the left side of the PFD.

Press the CMB B to arm the autoland mode. Both should be lit up.

Like I already stated, I left out steps since I assume you know what you are doing, and what may be left to do.

Good flying.

P.S. I think turning on both FD switches I believe is critical in order for both CMD switches to stay activated.


I am a rank amateur, and in no way am I trying to contradict you, but isn't the switching on of both FD switches necessary to allow both CMD switches to be armed?

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Todd I'm wondering if Ryan might have been right about an ILS not existing in the FSX navdata at your chosen destination.

 

I've had this a few times where I've tuned the ILS, using the information that the NGX navdata makes reference to, but when the NGX 'looks' for the ILS in FSX and can't find it, the system reverts to Integrated Approach Navigation.

 

The giveaway for this is that instead of getting LOC/GS on the top of the PFD, you'll get FAC/GP. In FAC/GP autloand is not available and you have to land the aircraft manually.

 

Check this, and if that IS the case, then you will need to try another ILS approach for autoland.

 

If you are definitely getting LOC/GS then we might need to dig a bit further into your issue. Let us know an example flight or flights where it occurs including the route, the STAR and the approach in each case.

 

Also let us know what AIRAC cycle (nav data effective date) you have installed and where it came from (i.e. came with the NGX or updated by a third-party).

 

Step us through each single action you take and when down the approach. Don't leave anything out!

 

With that info we can definitely work out what is happening for you.

 

Cheers

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Sir, I in no way would even try to autoland on a runway that does NOT have an ILS.  I have told you that I am fully engaged on the ILS, both radios are tuned to the ILS freq, and the course knobs are both set to the runway heading.  I press the approach button, I line up and engage the ILS, then I try to push the second command button.  But the first one turns off...even after I do all of this. I am only one cycle behind on the AIRAC, but ILS freqs do not change that often if ever.  

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Todd, we're trying to help you here, not insult your intelligence. I've read what you've said here very carefully, and my questions are based on that report, so please try to work with me.

The NGX has it's own navdata, quite distinct from the native FSX navdata. The FSX navdata is very old, and often there is a discrepancy between the two datasets. If the NGX navdata says that there is an ILS at your destination, then outwardly it will appear as though things should work fine, but if the corresponding FSX navdata is different (e.g. there was no ILS or a different frequency at the time the FSX dataset was taken) then you can run into issues like what you've reported here.

 

So, again, if you can definitely 100% confirm that you see LOC and GS on the PFD, then we'll need all the info I asked for above to delve further. If what you actually see on the PFD is FAC/GP then we've identified your issue.

 

Make sense?

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Ok, I must have missed a step the last time I tried it...but now I got it to work.  Thanks so much for all of your help.

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A picture of  what your  seeing  would be  great in dealing  with your problem

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No problem Todd, glad you got it working! It would be valuable to know what the issue was in order to help people with this issue in the future. If you were able to identify what it was that would be good to know!

 

The NGX is a delightfully complex beast and I learn stuff about it on every flight, even after hundreds and hundreds of hours in the saddle!

 

 

 

 

Ok, I must have missed a step the last time I tried it...but now I got it to work.  Thanks so much for all of your help.

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I don't know what I did.  I just followed the instructions, and I finally got it to work.

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