New to DirectX 10

[Snuffleupagus 328]

Hey guys!

 

I've been running FSX with a full list of addons and very good results, it is impressive! I do have a few problems though that I've read is fixed with DirectX 10 and I am now wanting to give DX10 a try. Problem is, (like with everything else FSX) I am unsure where to start, what addons are supported, etc. For those of you who use DX10 with FSX, could you chime in with what I need to know/do to get up to speed with DX10?  Much appreciated!

 

Thanks! 

 

Oh almost forgot, I am running Windows 7 64bit.

[ZKOKQ 986]

Welcome to the DX10 club Kyle.

Everything you need to know can be found here.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/387343-the-how-to-doc/

[Bernie5 11]

Moving to DX10 is well worth while, although do expect some texture issues with older models.

 

Follow the link above & have fun!

[Guest]

There isn't only a guide about DX10, there is a complete subforum about DX10 over here:

 

DX-10 Discussions, Hints and Help

[Snuffleupagus 328]

Thanks for all the pointers! I followed AVSIM guide exactly and unfortunately, I am seeing worse performance than when in DX9, including really bad blurred textures. I've been playing around with it for the last several hours with no improvements. I know I must be missing something since DX10 looks like it is the way to go with higher end machines but I'm having a difficult time figuring out where to go from here...  :(

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[Jim Young 2,356]

 

 

I am seeing worse performance than when in DX9, including really bad blurred textures.

 

If you are getting great images and performance with DX9, you should be getting the same with DX10.  DX10 technology is superior to DX9 but the FSX DX10 engine is only a Preview (of what the Microsoft development team planned on updating until they were laid off).  Steve's DX10 Shader fix has fixed some of the anomalies created by the Microsoft team. He did not fix them all.  If you are seeing blurry textures then that is not the fault of DX10.  The "blurries" are caused by having your fsx and display driver settings set so high that FSX simply cannot render the textures in time.  It means you have to lower your settings.  Coupled with high settings, a lot of people throw in tweaks that supposedly make FSX perform much faster (but you still can't turn up your settings)(I don't use those silly things).  Lower your settings.  If you have any of the Orbx/FTX products, look in their manual for the proper settings for their product based on YOUR system. Those Orbx/FTX settings work very well in DX10 too.  I have photoscenery and I use the settings suggested by the MegaSceneryEarth developers.  The textures and the scenery are perfect, clear, and I have FPS nearing or going over 100 much of the time.  My FSX settings are basically the default settings and I don't use any tweaks.  My display driver settings are exactly the same as the default settings put out by the Nvidia techs for the FSX program.

 

It is also possible you did not install Steve's DX10 product correctly and that will create major problems too.  PaulJ who wrote the "How To" guide has the whole General folder that you can simply download and replace with the one you have installed on your system.  Remember you have to delete the temporary Shader10 folder too.  Many people forget to do that.  But DX10 does nothing to your DX9 configurations whatsoever.  You can simply go from DX9 to DX10 and not touch a FSX or display driver setting.  You can return to DX9 without do anything as the only files that were changed by Steve's fix belong to DX10 (i.e., the General10 file).  So, if it is not working for you, you are doing something wrong.  Get back to your DX9 settings and set them up so they are perfect.  Then go into FSX and tick the DX10 Preview box, shutdown FSX and restart in DX10 mode.  It is a fantastic world with water animations and sun shadows in the cockpit, and a few minor other enhancements. 

 

Best regards,

Jim

[Snuffleupagus 328]

The thing that throws me off is I use the exact same settings for DX9 and DX10 but in DX10, it looks terrible. Here are 2 screenshots I got using the same settings on both:

 

DX9:

 

DX10:

 

Notice the blurriness at the end of the runway and the overall look is lower quality.

 

I also followed the "Fix" readme and it claims that it installed correctly (although it never asks for the FSX directory...) I played with the display settings in FSX for DX10 bringing them pretty much to 0's and it just makes it look even worse. I do have Orbx and Megascenery but most of the time I'm flying over places that are GEX/UTX and FSDT. 

 

As far as deleting the temp Shade10 folder, the "Fix" .exe claims it automatically does it so if that ran correctly it should have worked...? I just can't seem to figure out why it looks great in DX9 but when I switch to DX10 without touching a setting, it goes downhill...

[Jim Young 2,356]

Well, that does not happen to me but then I have a very powerful system.  To get a comparison first with DX9 and then with DX10, you had to shut down your computer as DX10 won't work unless you shutdown FSX and restart it.  There is no other way around that.  So, when you restarted your computer for the DX10 shot, perhaps there was a minor change in elevation or resolution.  You should always zoom out to about 50% view on the outside view and any wing view for the proper prospective.  Microsoft screwed that up.  It will allow scenery to render much faster.

 

Just to be sure you understand, DX10 does not modify textures.  It just does a better job with shadows and water animations and I think bloom is affected too.  Unfortunately Microsoft did not have the time to fully develop DX10 for FSX.  If you saw DX10 without Steve's fixes, there were anomalies all over the place.  Those have, for the most part, been fixed and more fixes are being worked on. 

 

Best regards,

Jim

[Snuffleupagus 328]

I feel like my system is on par with most these days, in DX9 it runs great with the exception of the OOM at FSDT KLAX. My specs are: 

i5-2500k @4.5GHz

8GB DDR3 RAM

GTX 560 1GB

 

I did shut down FSX and restart it but didn't restart my computer after the changes. My zoom level was around 60% for both of these screenshots. I understand DX10 doesn't mess with the textures as it's just an improvement to how things appear (I noticed sharper text in VC, love that!) and that is what is making this so frustrating! The fsx.cfg file is set up as it should be. The only thing I'm wondering is if maybe, somehow, nvidia inspector is not doing it's job in DX10? Also in DX10 and after applying the fix, I do still see the blue "FSX" squares on the VC (NGX) when switching into it for the first time but they go away fairly quick. Is that a sign the fix didn't install correctly?

 

Thanks for your help

[Guest]

 

 

I use the exact same settings for DX9 and DX10

 

I suppose that's where it's going wrong then...? I use COMPLETELY different settings in nVidia Inspector when I use DX10 and I also have to turn FSAA on in FSX.  

 

I have to add though that I personally use DX9 because on my PC DX10 also wasn't worth it: there might have been a small improvement in smoothness but in certain situations performance was far worse with DX10 and I also had the idea things looked a bit more blurred sooner (but that might have been just an idea because when I tested it using screenshots all looked fine... Your eyes can trick you sometimes.)

[Paul J 349]

The graphics control settings for FSX, when using DX10, will most definitely be different to those of DX9, as the FSX method of handling AA in DX10 doesn't allow the GPU full control that it has when using DX9.

This is why you should always make a backup of the original fsx.cfg and the Nvidia Inspector files.

 

I do suspect this was part of the 'code-to-be-fixed' which was left over when the ACES team was disbanded, as there are many references (in forums and blogs) to the internal workings - the fsx.exe itself - where the needed DX10 code didn't get finished, and that, combined with the shader code errors (in the ShadersHLSL folder), and other changes, such as the "round earth" compatibily, was enough to caused developers to abandon any attempt at DX10 compatibility in their products. Steve is the only person I've come across who has taken the initiative to actually do something about it, and fortunately, most of the problems with DX10 can be completely cured, or worst case - can be adequately masked, so as not to be noticed.

 

Anyway, back to the Kyle's problem:

 

 

 

The fsx.cfg file is set up as it should be. The only thing I'm wondering is if maybe, somehow, nvidia inspector is not doing it's job in DX10? Also in DX10 and after applying the fix, I do still see the blue "FSX" squares on the VC (NGX) when switching into it for the first time but they go away fairly quick. Is that a sign the fix didn't install correctly?

 

A few things we need for you to do, please, Kyle:

1). copy/paste your fsx.cfg, by highlighting it first, then doing a "Ctrl-C", followed by a "Ctrl-V" in the same folder. This will give you a file called "fsx - Copy.CFG".  Highlight it and change its name to "fsx_Kyle.txt", then, when you next reply to this thread - use the "More Reply Options at the bottom-right corner of the posting window, so that you can attach the file to the reply. We can only guess at what may be your issue/s until this is done.

 

2). We need to see your Inspector setup, so post a pic of that too, somewhere, so that we can see that, please.

 

3). Re the blue squares - you didn't copy the bmp into the root folder, that's all, Kyle. Steve's instructions suggest you backup the old (blue) texture first. Its' name is "bkg.bmp", and it is ... blue. You then need to go to wherever you stored and unpacked the patch, browse to the \Bonus\Darl Background Texture folder,  and then just copy new bkg.bmp into the fsx root folder. This new texture - Steve's replacement - is black - exactly as the one used by DX9. This was one of those "left over by ACES" problems, and the black texture fixes it..

 

4). Whenever you make any change to the ShadersHLSL folder - the dependent cache folder - the "Shaders" folder (DX9), and "Shaders10" folder (DX10) at C:\Users\{your user name}\AppData\Local\Microsoft\FSX\  must be deleted.

When you install the patch - it will automatically find the two folders and do this for you. If you have any doubts - just manually delete it yourself. (I personally always do this "just in case" (Murphy's Law)) OK!

 

Talk  to you later,

 

All the Best,

 

pj

[Snuffleupagus 328]

I suppose that's where it's going wrong then...? I use COMPLETELY different settings in nVidia Inspector when I use DX10 and I also have to turn FSAA on in FSX.  

 

I did forget to mention I have FSX AA enabled for DX10.

 

 

The graphics control settings for FSX, when using DX10, will most definitely be different to those of DX9, as the FSX method of handling AA in DX10 doesn't allow the GPU full control that it has when using DX9.

This is why you should always make a backup of the original fsx.cfg and the Nvidia Inspector files.

 

A few things we need for you to do, please, Kyle:

1). copy/paste your fsx.cfg, by highlighting it first, then doing a "Ctrl-C", followed by a "Ctrl-V" in the same folder. This will give you a file called "fsx - Copy.CFG".  Highlight it and change its name to "fsx_Kyle.txt", then, when you next reply to this thread - use the "More Reply Options at the bottom-right corner of the posting window, so that you can attach the file to the reply. We can only guess at what may be your issue/s until this is done.

 

2). We need to see your Inspector setup, so post a pic of that too, somewhere, so that we can see that, please.

 

3). Re the blue squares - you didn't copy the bmp into the root folder, that's all, Kyle. Steve's instructions suggest you backup the old (blue) texture first. Its' name is "bkg.bmp", and it is ... blue. You then need to go to wherever you stored and unpacked the patch, browse to the \Bonus\Darl Background Texture folder,  and then just copy new bkg.bmp into the fsx root folder. This new texture - Steve's replacement - is black - exactly as the one used by DX9. This was one of those "left over by ACES" problems, and the black texture fixes it..

 

4). Whenever you make any change to the ShadersHLSL folder - the dependent cache folder - the "Shaders" folder (DX9), and "Shaders10" folder (DX10) at C:\Users\{your user name}\AppData\Local\Microsoft\FSX\  must be deleted.

When you install the patch - it will automatically find the two folders and do this for you. If you have any doubts - just manually delete it yourself. (I personally always do this "just in case" (Murphy's Law)) OK!

 

Talk  to you later,

 

All the Best,

 

pj

 

 

Thanks for the detailed reply! I have learned the hard way in the past to always make a backup, so I got the part covered I have attatched my DX10 version of the fsx.cfg to this reply.

 

Here are my inspector settings:

 

First 1/3 of list:

 

 

2/3 of the list:

 

 

 

And the last little part that didn't make it in the above:

 

 

 

 

Again, thanks for your time in trying to help me get FSX running in DX10!

 

-Kyle

[Paul J 349]

Thanks for this, and a quick note, Kyle, before I/we get into the nitty-gritty... There's a bunch of little icon things along the top of Inspector... Starting with the "house" as #1, if you count along to the #10 icon (looks like a funnel) - click on it - it will shorten your options up to one page. Makes it so much easier...  :smile: 

 

I'll buzz off, and take a boo at these two, and will post back here later. Others might want to comment too.

[Mork 34]

Hi Kyle,

 

With your specs it should run pretty good, so I'm hopeful your performance can be improved with some minor changes.

I'm not sure though, because as always there are many different experiences here on AVSim, and I can only tell you about mine.

But no pain, no gain, so let's try some things.

 

 

In NVidia Inspector:

I would try setting AA to 4 X MS only. I don't know why, but for me (GTX 670 OC) all the settings with SS give noticeable less performance. 4X MS gives me great AA and good performance in combination with the 4XSGSS transparency super sampling.

 

In your fsx.CFG:

 

First of all, I can HIGHLY recommend to start off with a new fresh fsx.CFG. Trust me, it's a best way to start your DX10 journey. Put in the D3D10=1 line, the HIGHMEMFIX=1 line and set your AA and anisotropic settings and try it. Start without the FTFF and TMB tweaks for now.

 

I did look at your current config, and this seems a little odd:

 

 

[bUFFERPOOLS]
BufferPools=1
Poolsize=10485760
RejectThreshold=524288
UsePools=1

 

You can delete the bufferpools=1 line OR the usepools=1 line. Both there seems redundant, but Paul probably knows these things better than me.

You can also try usepools=0 by the way, for some that is a good tweak. I don't know if your entries could cause any bad performance, don't think so, but let's wait what Paul suggests.

 

 

[DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 .0.0]
Mode=1280x1024x32
TriLinear=1
AntiAlias=1

 

Try using anisotropic=1 instead of trilinear. Are you sure you want to fly in that resolution? Don't know about your monitor of course.

Be aware of two instances of these entries, one for DX9 and one for DX10 (with the two decimals behind your vid card type -> [DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 .0.0] = DX10.

You can comment out your DX9 graphic card settings if you wish, but it doesn't matter.

 

 

MultiSamplesPerPixel=4

MultiSampleQuality=8

Start with this at 4 also, might help in the performance department.

 

Some other observations/suggestions:

 

SWAP_WAIT_TIMEOUT=10 Set this to 2, that works great for me and Paul.

WATER_EFFECTS=6 Try at 5, even 4 is enough for nice water (2X.LOW) by the way. As far as I know from 4 up it only adds more things that reflect on water. At 4 you only get the clouds reflection if I remember correctly

FreewayDensity=10 If you really like it's ok, you might want to try 5 though. If you really need more performance set it to 0, because it's a performance hog.

 

But don't just start putting all my suggestions in, just start with a fresh fsx.CFG. Decide what are musts and set your sliders accordingly. Then test performance and start tweaking step by step.

 

If you report back we can assist you further. Good luck!