Let's go AI Native!

[simmerhead 885]

Just too bad that everybody has to reinvent the wheel on their own computer and that copyright issues prevent the majority of simmers from participating. WOAI had a good thing going, but still lacks coverage for many parts of the world, and there are very few military and GA packages.

 

What would be great is if simmers could unite and create some sort of freeware AI community and work together to create installers, editors, models, reapints and flightplans. There are just too many excellent freeware developers creating stunning work that never gets out to the community because most simmers find it too difficult and time consuming to get it working. Also, by not uniting a lot of airlines and flightplans will never see the light of day, because people work on the same things instead of working on different things and add to the variety.

 

I'm just a knucklehead with no technical knowledge, but I am a racer with Excel and enjoy creating flight plans, but it seems futile to create a lot of them when they can't be shared with anyone. Copyright issues with the models and repaints make distribution hopeless.

 

Just a few thoughts...

[gsnde 0]

Hi Simmerhead,

 

I know only about military AI. But with MAIW and ACG we have two very much alive communities with a massive output of highest quality models, repaints, flight plans and sceneries. Both communities are very friendly and very helpful for people that don't succeed in getting things to work.

 

With John Young entering the AI scene, many genuine FSX AI models are now available as well (Avro Lancaster & Vulcan, BAe Harrier, Blachburn Buckaneer, EE Lightning & Canberra, B-29, B-25, Hawker Hunter & Hurricane, HP Victor to name a few.).  Other modellers have started to produce FSX as well (Brian Franklin with his beautiful Nimrod). Any most of the FS9 AI models are really very good in FSX (have a look at my Screenshot Gallery if you are interested).

 

There are very few restrictions on publishing repaints and flight plans. I know of some modelers who reserves the right to ask for a repaint to be removed if it is just too badly done. But I have never heard of this actually happening. Many modellers will even allow you to add their model to a package if you can proof that you have done a proper job of painting, plannig and maybe scenery addition. But naturally you should always get in contact with a modeller before releasing anything that is his copyright.

 

Helping people to find models, repaints and flight plans is excactly the purpose of my Military AI Reference and my MAIW Reference.

 

I can't say how things are in the civil world of AI though.

 

 

[simmerhead 885]

Thanks for your reply Martin. I will check out your site for sure. I'm working on getting an P3D AI package for Norway up and going, with both GA, airliners and military aircraft. Hope you can point me in the right direction!

[gsnde 0]

On my Military AI Reference set the country filter to 'NO' and it will show you all records of the Royal Norwegian Air Force (18 in total). Some packages are retro, like the F-104. Based on these models you can start doing repaints and flight plans. Every listed package has the link to where you can find it.

 

As soon as you have published your releases to either AVSim or FlightSim I will add them to the list :ph34r:

[catchman 13]

Just too bad that everybody has to reinvent the wheel on their own computer and that copyright issues prevent the majority of simmers from participating. WOAI had a good thing going, but still lacks coverage for many parts of the world, and there are very few military and GA packages.

 

What would be great is if simmers could unite and create some sort of freeware AI community and work together to create installers, editors, models, reapints and flightplans. There are just too many excellent freeware developers creating stunning work that never gets out to the community because most simmers find it too difficult and time consuming to get it working. Also, by not uniting a lot of airlines and flightplans will never see the light of day, because people work on the same things instead of working on different things and add to the variety.

My suggestion would be to create a new license, EULA, or standard agreement for each of the big freeware contributors that would give third parties the ability to compile and redistribute - through free sites only such as AVSIM - work from several parties so long as attribution is given. In sum, a broadening of the same rights and permission WOAI is given when it makes a file that comes from the root work of several authors.

 

For example, a redux of American Eagle consisting of AIG flight plans with AIM and AIA repaints and models posted on AVSIM with credit given to AIG, AIA, AIM, and the third party who compiled the package.

[simmerhead 885]

Problem is to find the AI aircraft themselves. Seems to be plenty of repaints and flightplans scattered around for those who have a lifteime to spare downloading it all , one file at the time, but that really doesn't help if one can't find the aircraft to attatch it all to.

[gsnde 0]

For that reason I have changed the layout of the AI Reference half a year ago (which was a major pita by the way). I have added the required base model to all of the >2600  items listed. I only add items to the list for which I know the required base model.

 

To guide you through the process once taking the RNAF as an example:

 

1. You filter the country column = 'NO' which results in this list:

 

The list should be self explaining. First column the aircraft, second the description, third the author of this package, fourth the author of the model, fifth the link to the information page, sixth FS9 or FSX model, the next three columns are for model included, repaints included and flight plan included.

 

So in above example you can download the Lockheed F-104G Starfighter, the Northrop F-5A/B Freedom Fighter and the Lockheed P-3 Orion package and have both paints and models directly in  your downloaded package.

 

The C-130 and the F-16 are using the Henry Tomkiewicz model (HT in fourth column). These packages only provide textures. So the next thing you do is to remove the 'NO' filter to see all items again. Now add the filter "HT" in the third column. This will result in a list of all models from Henry that he had published himself. This is the result:

 

 

Now you can download he models for the C-130 and the F-16.

 

Does this explain the concept?

[simmerhead 885]

OK, I didn't fint the model provided with the Orion I downloaded, but it might be an error in that comprhensive list of yours . I'll try downloading a few other livery packages and see if I find the model in there. Thanks for your kind explenation!

 

EDIT: Yep, The Orion was provided with a different package. Thanks a lot. I'm starting to get the hang of this . Now I'm crossing my fingers that I can reach all the repainters and model creators to recompile them into a common package with authentic Norwegian flightplans, so anyone that wans to have freeware traffic for Norway can get it from a single file, instead of spending a week hunting down all the files fom various sources.

[Bjoern 1,157]

My suggestion would be to create a new license, EULA, or standard agreement for each of the big freeware contributors that would give third parties the ability to compile and redistribute - through free sites only such as AVSIM - work from several parties so long as attribution is given. In sum, a broadening of the same rights and permission WOAI is given when it makes a file that comes from the root work of several authors.

 

If you force a certain EULA on freeware authors, they'll be gone faster than you can apologize.

 

I, too, find it counterproductive that some freeware content creators place restrictive licenses on their work, but it's their right and untouchable.

 

If you want to modify their work, at least contact them first and ask for permission. Or at the very, very, very least properly credit them.

And don't be that kind of dick that compiles packages and passes it off as entirely his own work.

[catchman 13]

If you force a certain EULA on freeware authors, they'll be gone faster than you can apologize.

 

I, too, find it counterproductive that some freeware content creators place restrictive licenses on their work, but it's their right and untouchable.

 

If you want to modify their work, at least contact them first and ask for permission. Or at the very, very, very least properly credit them.

And don't be that kind of dick that compiles packages and passes it off as entirely his own work.

I'm going to assume you were not suggesting that I advocated anyone recompile others work without their permission.

[gsnde 0]

OK, I didn't fint the model provided with the Orion I downloaded, but it might be an error in that comprhensive list of yours . I'll try downloading a few other livery packages and see if I find the model in there. Thanks for your kind explenation!

 

Indeed, that was an error I introduced (corrected now). The RNAF contains repaints & flightplan, not model & repaints. 

The model of the P-3 is from Jake Burrus, by the way. Just filter in the first column for 'Orion' and select e.g. the RNZAF Orion. This package includes the model, as so all others except the RNAF package  :rolleyes:

 

Do you think - ignoring the one and other error I have brought into the game - that this list will help people to build their military AI world?

[simmerhead 885]

Your list is extremely helpful, but the original problem of this only being a thing for hard core simmers isn't going to change.

 

That's why I am trying to recompile a package for Norway. I wan't to make it easy for anyone to install and enjoy AI if they want to fly into Norway.

 

I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to reach and get approval from every painter and modeller, so I'm quite certain it will remain on my harddrive only - which is a shame.

 

That's why all this copyright stuff for freeware is in many ways counterproductive. I mean, why do all this wonderful work, and only let a tiny minority use it? With a little more cooperation the FS world could have been covered in great detail - for free - by now.

[NGXfanatic 85]

Just too bad that everybody has to reinvent the wheel on their own computer and that copyright issues prevent the majority of simmers from participating. WOAI had a good thing going, but still lacks coverage for many parts of the world, and there are very few military and GA packages.

 

What would be great is if simmers could unite and create some sort of freeware AI community and work together to create installers, editors, models, reapints and flightplans. There are just too many excellent freeware developers creating stunning work that never gets out to the community because most simmers find it too difficult and time consuming to get it working. Also, by not uniting a lot of airlines and flightplans will never see the light of day, because people work on the same things instead of working on different things and add to the variety.

 

I'm just a knucklehead with no technical knowledge, but I am a racer with Excel and enjoy creating flight plans, but it seems futile to create a lot of them when they can't be shared with anyone. Copyright issues with the models and repaints make distribution hopeless.

 

Just a few thoughts...

Those are some very excellent points.   You don't know how many times I have wished that I could just zip up my AI collection, both flightplans and models/paints, and share it with the community.  I take lots of pride in my "work" and wish others could see what I see in my sim on their own screens, as I try my best to make sure the fleet paints and equipment, at least for the biggest airlines, correlates with what is seen in the real world.   And I don't stop at the AI traffic, I also constantly update the gate assignments at my airport AFCADs so that airlines park at the correct terminals.  It really is like a model railroad, just virtual!   How cool would it be to have an open source, central database of AI traffic that the user could inject into their sim with frequent updates to account for the constant change in the real environment?   We have to option to update our navaid database, and SID/STARs databases to match the real world, why not have the same capability with the AI traffic?

 

There are quite a few obstacles in place.  File size for one thing, I'm sure if I was to zip up my install it would be a few gigs.  Most importantly, the majority of my AI traffic, while based on freeware flightplans, is injected into my sim via UT2, a payware program.  But lets look at this from the perspective of the freeware flightplan and repaint authors. There is the potential for all kinds of technical headaches, mainly with the installation of the AI models and paints and the likelihood of installation snafus from duplicate paints or model mismatches, as a one size fits all simobjects AI folder will not work.  AI comprises two elements:  The .bgl flightplan housed in the Scenery/World/Scenery folder.  That file is not very hard to deal with.  But the second element, the management of the base models and paints in the simobjects folder, can be complicated.  You start dealing with text files,and if there are missing or duplicate entries, it can play havoc with your sim.  WOAI helped in that regard, because it uses a smart installer that does all the behind scenes work of adding/removing base models and paints, but it's a very time consuming task for the package authors to compile those files, hence, the reason why very few packages are released.  Not to mention, the topic of copyrights and intellectual property is a very sensitive subject, and there have been times where authors have asked for their work to be removed from WOAI packages, and there is also the recent UTT scandal. 

 

So as much as I would love to see a unified AI database created, where users can freely upload their own paints and airline schedules and have them pushed into the sim seamlessly, that kind of project is pretty much a pipedream.  The current infrastructure of the the simulator will not allow it, from both a technical and legal standpoint, so the user is relegated to hunting for paints and schedules from many disparate websites to carefully install into their sim.

[Bjoern 1,157]

I'm going to assume you were not suggesting that I advocated anyone recompile others work without their permission.

 

No, I was speaking generally.

[simmerhead 885]

Yep, it's sad, I know that's why many freeware developers left the hobby and stopped developing both software/utilities and models/paints. They just got tired of all the people creating obstacles for freeware to be free. I understand that freeware developers don't want their work used in payware or uploaded to dubious sites, but I don't really get the need for credit and control of who and where it is used, but I know, that's just me.

 

To draw a parallell, I have been a photographer for 25+ years, and although I have made quite a bit of money from my work, I share a lot of it for free, especially on wikipedia (where I don't even credit my work). I just like sharing it and contribute to the world in a non commercial way.

 

I think WOAI was a great idea, and it's sad the people behind it have more or less abandoned the project.

 

For this AI thing to really work an organisation would be needed that could compile a model library that was updated just like ORBX does with their 3D objects.