Liquid cooling or not

[martin-w 3,252]

I do have a DB meter, if I get time this weekend I'll post pics of my PC db readings at my listening position, under normal load and full load.

 

FYI, I use my DB meter for a couple of things, setting levels of my studio monitors (audio work) and checking sound levels of my race car as some tracks have DB limits (Laguna Seca, Sonoma, Thunderhill, etc.).

 

 

Rob, you're a scary man. I would have a brown trousers moment at race car speeds. :biggrin:

 

Scares the pants of me at 70 on our motorways. Mind you we do have plenty of lunatics on UK motorways. Tailgating drifting across lanes, you name it.

 

If that's a Lotus, glad to see you're a British car man.

[PigsInSpace 21]

So much repetition and so may words there Martin, trying to dig ourselves out are we?

 

Or maybe just deeper in the hole?  B)

 

 

 

Irrelevant, we have to use max RPM for an accurate comparison, because that's what Noctua give us

 

 

Incorrect, Noctua provides lower RPM figures for each and every fan and I used those figures.

 

See the specification pages: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=produkte&lng=en#fans

 

 

Irrelevant, as we have already established, the extra airflow in terms of your 150 fan, is bypassing the cooler, not passing through the heat sink at all, so not contributing to CPU cooling. 

 

 

Completely false.

 

None of those fans completely cover the D14, not even the larger 150mm. This was already established for you; what part of that don't you get?

 

Hint - Is the D-14 round or square? The fan?

 

See those corners uncovered by the fan? Should I put a smaller fan in there? Would that make it better or worse or not matter? A 120mm then? Lets just remove it right?

 

 

I think I am starting to understand why this is all lost on you.

 

According to you little performance gains don't matter?

 

That they can be had while being that much more quiet,= not good?

 

I don't know Martin, why do we need a 14mm why not just two 120mm?

 

Or why even two fans on the D-14 its not that much different than just one is it?

 

Heck, Lets just use the stock CPU cooler, and hey why use something like LIquidPRO when we have mayonnaise or Skippy?

 

Gee-sh Martin, I'm so sorry I bothered to show something in here that actually works and can be applied for free (no cost - just move the fan)

 

 

Irrelevant, ..... Irrelevant...bla...bla...bla

 

 

Yeah...so "irrelevant" that many people will quickly ditch last years top performing TIM or even a the whole Cooler just to gain a fraction to a few degrees of performance.

 

A few degrees C at such a low RPM's value usually exponentially grows with RPM increases. Is this to lost on you? Yes, at 1000 RPM VS the 750 I am using now; the gain is more than just a few degrees C and it keeps going up from there.

And this was done, not by Adding a fan but simply moving it were it will be more effective.

 

As far as the 150mm vs. 140mm fan:

 

What do you think was the reason that Noctua chose a 140mm fan over just keeping them both 120mm? Sell more plastic?

That I chose 150mm is probably the same reason that Noctua chose the 140mm over a 120mm, no? 

 

And, no ALL grills are restrictive and increase noise, they only become less restrictive by doing things like bulging them out to lessen noise (increasing distance from fan) and create more surface area etc.

Simple test anyone can do, take a moving fan (carefully) and put it close to the grill, and take it away, near, take away, noise, less noise...better check it out Martin before anyone else does.

 

But no matter I must be wrong, such stupid little details like that.

 

Go on Martin, write back about how worthless and inafective these pursuits all are and how I am misleading those that might have or want a D14.

What exactly have you come up with, anything?

 

Hey, Rob you can save money and not bother with larger less restricted Intake, larger valves, longer duration Cam, larger diameter free flowing exhaust, etc..put that airbox back on there...wot restrictions? They don't matter...wont add up to nothin...LOL. 

[Guest]

I got my DB meter out last night and placed it at my typical sitting position at heads height and sadly I found out that my DB meter doesn't register below 50 db, just comes back with "Lo" ... so sadly the only thing I know is that my PC is less than 50 db under max load.

 

The race car is a little different -- fans restrict airflow at speed so the oil coolers and water coolers have no fans, just have to make sure the car doesn't sit stationary for too long.  It's all about capturing and directing air flow in and keeping that air as cool as possible during it's inflow path and making sure air out path is unrestricted ... but also have to consider drag.

[martin-w 3,252]

So much repetition and so may words there Martin, trying to dig ourselves out are we?

You've written plenty of words yourself. What baffles me is your inability to grasp simple logic. I know it's hard when our choices are challenged, but honestly. Lots and lots of words here too. What more do you expect when you have posted so many less than logical points to counter. Not to mention plenty of irrelevancy. Not to mention the fact that I have to keep repeating the same thing over and over again, because you don't understand.

 

Incorrect, Noctua provides lower RPM figures for each and every fan and I used those figures.

 

See the specification pages: http://www.noctua.at...kte&lng=en#fans

 

So what? Common sense should tell you that if a fan is close to another in terms of sound output, that they will BOTH experience a reduction in sound output at lower RPM. Unless you have decided that the immutable laws of physics, aren't immutable at all in this case.

 

Here are my fans at the same RPM as yours...

 

140: 13.8 dB(A)

120: 12.6 dB(A)

 

Can't tell you for the noiseblocker 120, as I can't find the specs, but it's designed to be ultra quiet.

 

Here's yours, as you posted...

 

 

The 150mm fan @ 900 RPM is 13.8 db. The 120mm is 12.6 @ 900 RPM certainly not 19 DB you strangely used.

Seems they are identical in terms of noise output at the lower RPM. Please check yourself, in case I have made an error. So effectively you have spent £40 on two expensive fans, and you are now experiencing the same sound output as me. :rolleyes: And what did you say the primary purpose was? A near silent PC.

 

 

Completely false.

 

None of those fans completely cover the D14, not even the larger 150mm. This was already established for you; what part of that don't you get?

 

Hint - Is the D-14 round or square? The fan?

 

What on Earth are you talking about, of course they don't, that's precisely my point.... Look at the photo of your rig! Notice how there is a big fan overhang? Do you see it? There is an overhang toward the rear and toward the side panel, yes? What does that tell you? Your heat sink is 120mm, your fan is 150mm, so the overhang is a full 30mm. 30mm of fan, not cooling the CPU.

 

See those corners uncovered by the fan? Should I put a smaller fan in there? Would that make it better or worse or not matter? A 120mm then? Lets just remove it right?

 

Huh, that makes no sense at all. Here it is again... My point is that the large diameter fan, that's larger than the heat sink, is not passing air through the heat sink where it overhangs. So the increased cfm from the larger 150 fan, opposed to a 120 fan is not cooling the CPU. Easy stuff. Noctua new that when they included a 140 fan on the D14. they didn't do it for CPU cooling, they knew that where it overhangs the heat sink it would cool the motherboard somewhat.

 

Did you fit these fans to cool the motherboard more? If so why, when Noctua had already done it for you in terms of a 140 fan?

 

Read what Noctua say about the two 150mm NF-A15 fans you have fitted, and why they generate more airflow...

 

The NF-A15 is a premium quality quiet 140mm fan with a round frame that complies with Noctua’s AAO (Advanced Acoustic Optimisation) standard. The NF-A15’s frame features 120mm mounting holes (105mm spacing) and has been enlarged to 150mm width in order to provide superior performance on today’s high-end CPU coolers.

 

So Noctua make is quite clear, that the reason your NF-A15 fans generate more airflow is because they have been enlarged to 150mm. Much of that extra fan diameter, IS NOT cooling your CPU heat sink, because it overhangs the heat sink. Easy stuff.

 

 

I think I am starting to understand why this is all lost on you.

 

According to you little performance gains don't matter?

 

That they can be had while being that much more quiet,= not good?

 

I don't know Martin, why do we need a 14mm why not just two 120mm?

 

Or why even two fans on the D-14 its not that much different than just one is it?

 

Wrong! I have no problem with minor improvements.... as long as they are worth the expense and effort. A few pound for TIM, a few pounds spent on a tweak here, and a tweak there, no problem. But you have fitted TWO of some of the most expensive fans out there. The NF-A15 fans are £20 each in the UK. so you have spent a huge £40 for a gain of a couple of degrees, [so you say, we have no evidence] and an almost inaudible reduction in noise.

 

And importantly, in a previous post, you have already agreed that the reduction in CPU temp, was more to do with removing the grill, and moving a fan into contact with the heat sink. Not the bigger fans. And please don't tell me that your new fans increase MB cooling significantly due to the overhang. Yes, they do, by a mere fraction, even less because you have already told us you run your CPU fans at lower RPM. So not enough extra MB cooling to be relevant.

 

What do you think was the reason that Noctua chose a 140mm fan over just keeping them both 120mm? Sell more plastic?

That I chose 150mm is probably the same reason that Noctua chose the 140mm over a 120mm, no?

 

 

Err, because the overhang provides a tad more motherboard cooling, as I've said till I'm blue in the face. But you had to ditch the 140 Noctua fan you had already paid for, and spend £40 on two new fans to increase the MB cooling a fraction more... despite the fact that it wasn't required, because Noctua had already addressed MB cooling adequately. :rolleyes:

 

 

And, no ALL grills are restrictive and increase noise, they only become less restrictive by doing things like bulging them out to lessen noise (increasing distance from fan) and create more surface area etc.

Simple test anyone can do, take a moving fan (carefully) and put it close to the grill, and take it away, near, take away, noise, less noise...better check it out Martin before anyone else does.

 

I'm not criticising you for removing your grill. Fine, it's easy, doesn't cost anything. But what I can tell you, is that it makes no difference on my system. Not surprising given that Lian li provide decent grills. There was no reduction in noise, and no increase in cooling. Actually, I noticed one degree less, but statically that's within the margin of error, so discounted.

 

 

Go on Martin, write back about how worthless and inafective these pursuits all are and how I am misleading those that might have or want a D14.

What exactly have you come up with, anything?

 

Lets just say I wouldn't spend £40 for an almost inaudible reduction in noise. [No reduction in noise at lower RPM] I might remove the fan grill though. [if it worked for me]

 

What have I come up with... Hmm lets see. There was the drip tray I fabricated, that completely protects motherboard and graphics card in the event of a AIO cooler leak. Partly fabricated, but then I didn't bother with an AIO cooler in the end.

 

All good fun, and in the case of the above, very cheap.

[martin-w 3,252]

Edit: oops! Sorry I missed this point,so I'm afraid some more words for you.

 

 

Yeah...so "irrelevant" that many people will quickly ditch last years top performing TIM or even a the whole Cooler just to gain a fraction to a few degrees of performance.

 

 

 

Err, yes, a fraction of a degree is obviously irrelevant. :rolleyes:

 

If they spend a bomb on an expensive new cooler, just for a fraction of a degree then they would be defined as idiots. 

 

However... if some one is rolling in money, then it's up to them how they spend it. And some wealthy individuals, who happen to be enthusiasts, change coolers just for fun, not because they need to.

 

But for me, and the vast majority out there... we need to know if your "mod" is worth spending £40 on fans.

 

No, it's not!

[martin-w 3,252]

Hey, Rob you can save money and not bother with larger less restricted Intake, larger valves, longer duration Cam, larger diameter free flowing exhaust, etc..put that airbox back on there...wot restrictions? They don't matter...wont add up to nothin...LOL. 

 

 

 

One or two horse power can make a split second difference, and be the difference between Rob winning a race and coming second.

 

One or two degrees less in regard to your CPU temp is great if it turns you on, but not if you've spent £40 for the privilege. And that £40 expenditure wasn't the reason for your temp reduction anyway. Oh yes, and no noise reduction at low RPM compared to the standard D14 set up.

[PigsInSpace 21]

Ok Martin you win.

[martin-w 3,252]

Damn, I had a final killer argument prepared.

 

I know what you're up to, you are going to patent my drip tray idea aren't you and become a millionaire?

 

:lol:

 

 

 

 

[PigsInSpace 21]

 

 

I had a final killer argument prepared

 

Oh, I'm sure...cough

 

Your arguments remind me of the time the shipping company trying to figure the charges, and told me it was 112lb shipping cost for a bicycle rim/wheel that weighed less than 2 ilbs why?

 

because the Bike tire had 110 pounds of air pressure in it.  :blink:

 

Have a good one.

[martin-w 3,252]

2 ilbs

 

 

What are ilbs?

 

:wink:

[Boomer 1,619]

 

 

 

OMG the WEIGHT of that contraption on your MOBO, sir.

 

I am looking to liquid cooling, likely the 100i, for exactly that reason, my V8 is far too heavy, cant even move the pc with it on without worrying about it damaging my MOBO.

[martin-w 3,252]

The weight of the D14 isn't an issue. Even with the extra fan added by Mr Piggs.

 

Noctua have designed the bracket very well. There are zero reports of issues with the D14 and weight.

 

Noctua engineers test such things thoroughly.

[PigsInSpace 21]

 

 

 

 

OMG the WEIGHT of that contraption on your MOBO, sir.

 

I am looking to liquid cooling, likely the 100i, for exactly that reason, my V8 is far too heavy, cant even move the pc with it on without worrying about it damaging my MOBO.

 

 

Uh OK.

 

No, you of course are right, it is Big, AND Heavy.

 

Personally this is my fourth rig with a D14, my first purchased in 09 is still working just fine as originally used on a I7-920 still running at 4.4GHZ just like the Haswell and I have transported it a dozen times (though never trusted to anyone else).

 

FrozenCPU is the second largest distributor of the D14 in the US, though they will never ship a unit with one installed (obviously) there has never been one single complaint of it ever hurting or damaging a MB - ever.

[martin-w 3,252]

I would agree.

 

My D14 has cooled three rigs. No issues whatsoever. Prior to purchase, I scoured the internet for issues... there were none.

 

Yes it is big, it is heavy, but the only way I can see it distorting a motherboard, is if the motherboard standoff screws were loose.

 

I agree, with any big cooler it's never wise to transport it distances, especially with a third party, but other than that, there are no concerns.

 

Noctua's mounting system has stood the test of time - we can definitively state that it works!

P.S. Not sure what the Avsim technical guys have been up to, but now everything we type is in bold. :huh: