Up to now I have a Thermaltake Kandalf LCS case.

I was thinking about buying a Thermaltake GT10 LCS case : incredible beautiful case with lots of features.

 

Before buying this expensive case I was wondering wether or not to continue with liquid coolling or go back to aur cooling.

 

What are your experiences ?

I've been using a custom water loop for ~4 years--1/2" ID tubing and two 360mm radiators.  It's very quiet and far more effective than air, but a bit more work.  Most of the cooling loop components (pump, radiators, reservoir, flow gauge) are mounted external to the case to minimize risk of a water leak to the computer.  The only water connections in the PC case are the two connections to the CPU water block and the two connections to the GPU water block.  I did have a radiator spring a leak a few years ago, and doing it this way resulted in no more trouble than a puddle of water in the plastic tub under the cooling plant.

 

The GPU (a superclocked GTX680) runs FSX with temps in the 30s ©, the CPU (i7-2600K @ 4.8 GHz) runs FSX with core temps in the low 40s.

 

I like what water gives me, especially the decrease in fan noise...I won't be going back to air on an overclocked FS machine build anytime soon.

 

Regards

I've used water cooling going way way way back to the first Koolance setups ... then I moved to Peltier setup with two 1000 Watt PSUs and 3/8" tubing and very large external radiator (water flow speed control is critical to maximize heat exchange ... too much flow can be worse than too little flow).  Then I moved back to air only, now I'm on a self contained water cooling setup H100.

 

The Peltier setup was ALOT of work ... you have to prep the motherboard with a special sealant to keep water condensation out, there was power on "ramp up" time as the Peltier need to get cold enough to allow a boot, etc. etc.  It was considerable work to get another 400Mhz over a canned water cooler setup -- which equated to about 2 fps improvement in FSX.   And if you live in Alaska, my old Peltier PC could keep an entire home warm all year long

 

Anyway, I'm back to canned water cooling solutions, the extreme effort just wasn't worth it for me.

 

Still have my Peltier today -- disconnected:

 

 

 

Water cooling for me

More efficient

Less weight/torque on the mobo (even with supports)

Does not attract dust to cpu area (fins on heat exchanger)

Reliable  - closed systems very reliable - chances of failure IMHO same as a mobo, cpu, RAM, psu, failure.

Easy to fit - many come with TP pre-applied.

Most cars are water cooled and they have expensive electronics too.

Regards

pH

Thanks guys,

 

I bought myself the Thermaltake GT10 LCS... :-)

I have switched to a closed liquid system (Kraken X60). I don't gain anything as far as less noise, but I do get better cooling than my NHD14 and the big one for me was more room around my CPU on my Mobo and less strain on my Mobo which is always Asus that tend to be quite thin.

I have switched to a closed liquid system (Kraken X60). I don't gain anything as far as less noise, but I do get better cooling than my NHD14 and the big one for me was more room around my CPU on my Mobo and less strain on my Mobo which is always Asus that tend to be quite thin.

 

 

Yes the Kraken is somewhat cooler than the NH-D14. But not by as much as you may think.

 

What we almost never see is a comparison with "the same fans". What should concern us in the efficiency of the heat sink itself, without the fan variable.

 

When we do that, we truly see which are the best coolers. For example, if you look at the link below, you can see that when the same fans are used, rather than the NZXT high RPM noisy fans, that the Corsair H110 beats the X60 by 5 degrees.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlPSGh26Ne0XdHZweHoxckRqazBvM0RTMW5GSFZNRmc#gid=0

 

As for strain on the motherboard from the D14, no, that's not the case. Noctua did a great job of designing the retention bracket. In 3 builds all with the D14, I have had zero issues. Furthermore, there isn't a single issue on the internet of anyone breaking a motherboard due the D14 retention mechanism.

 

So yes, the Kraken is a great cooler, but if we consider the fan variable, perhaps not as great as many thought. Only beats the H100i by one degree with the same fans.

Water cooling for me

More efficient

Less weight/torque on the mobo (even with supports)

Does not attract dust to cpu area (fins on heat exchanger)

Reliable  - closed systems very reliable - chances of failure IMHO same as a mobo, cpu, RAM, psu, failure.

Easy to fit - m

come with TP pre-applied.

Most cars are water cooled and they have expensive electronics too.

pH

 

More efficient

 

That depends on which AIO coolers and which air coolers you are referring to.

 

Less weight/torque on the mobo (even with supports)

 

Not an issue if it's properly designed. Noctua's system for example is free of issues. In three builds with the D14, not a single issue. And there are no issues reported as a result of Noctua's system.

 

 

Most cars are water cooled and they have expensive electronics too.

 

 

Not relevant. In a car, the sensitive electronics, for example the engine management system, is nowhere near the radiator or cooling system.

 

 

Reliable  - closed systems very reliable - chances of failure IMHO same as a mobo, cpu, RAM, psu, failure.

 

Impossible to say. The manufacturers of AIO coolers don't release the failure figures.

I have run water air and phase change coolings for lot of years no problems .

Some vendors have worked on the protection

Yes the Kraken is somewhat cooler than the NH-D14. But not by as much as you may think.

 

What we almost never see is a comparison with "the same fans". What should concern us in the efficiency of the heat sink itself, without the fan variable.

 

When we do that, we truly see which are the best coolers. For example, if you look at the link below, you can see that when the same fans are used, rather than the NZXT high RPM noisy fans, that the Corsair H110 beats the X60 by 5 degrees.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlPSGh26Ne0XdHZweHoxckRqazBvM0RTMW5GSFZNRmc#gid=0

 

As for strain on the motherboard from the D14, no, that's not the case. Noctua did a great job of designing the retention bracket. In 3 builds all with the D14, I have had zero issues. Furthermore, there isn't a single issue on the internet of anyone breaking a motherboard due the D14 retention mechanism.

 

So yes, the Kraken is a great cooler, but if we consider the fan variable, perhaps not as great as many thought. Only beats the H100i by one degree with the same fans.

Hi Martin, I am not saying I had issues with my NHD14 on my Asus Mobo builds, it is more of a concern on my part. Having said that, the space factor around the CPU is really my main draw to the X60 (or any liquid cooler for that matter. One real annoyance for me was the access to and the restricted choices of memory that had to tuck under one side of the NHD14 on my builds.

 

Regards,

Martin-W

Design for design water is more efficient at cooling than air - it has been used in the pharmaceutical industry for years.

Air is not a good conductor of heat - because it is an INSULATOR and even with conduction and fan assistance it has nowhere near the performance of a liquid like water.

Weight-torque is important (especially as some mobo's are now thinner) and one manufacturer now recommends removing the air cooler if you are going to transport the PC.

The Car example is relevant as when a car hose bursts it sprays hot water/steam throughout the engine compartment and even into the car itself - many electronic controls are in the engine compartment any way.

Many experts recommend only delidding Haswell cpus if they are air cooled - its inferred that delidding is not needed if you use water cooling.

 

I stand by what I say and that is in general water cooling is much more efficient than air cooling.

 

But I would not stop anyone who wished to use an air cooler, that's a choice that a simmer needs to make.

pH

Martin-W

Design for design water is more efficient at cooling than air - it has been used in the pharmaceutical industry for years.

Air is not a good conductor of heat - because it is an INSULATOR and even with conduction and fan assistance it has nowhere near the performance of a liquid like water.

 

 

Err, yes, we know water is a better cooling medium than air, that is obvious. But you can't make blanket statements like that, generalized statements righting off all of the air coolers out there. [Like the D14, that beat many all-in-one water coolers]

 

You said you used water cooling "because it's more efficient". But that statement is meaningless because you haven't told us which water cooler you are referring to. Full blown water cooling loop yes, H110 yes, other all-in-one water coolers, probably not. [Depending on the model]

 

In fact I'm a fan of full blown water cooling loops. [if the user is aware of, and prepared for possible leaks]

 

You are ignoring the design of the coolers themselves. For example, the D14 and Silver Arrow and Phantecs, beat many of the all in one water coolers.  It may be water, but big deal, that doesn't help it if the radiator surface area is limited. Then we have the capabilities of the pumps to add to the equation.

 

You must realise your statement isn't relevant to the discussion, as you must have seen the reviews that demonstrate that the top air coolers are still beating many of the all in one water coolers.

 

Generalised statements like yours don't apply.

Weight-torque is important (especially as some mobo's are now thinner) and one manufacturer now recommends removing the air cooler if you are going to transport the PC.

 

 

it would be important if the method used by a particular air cooler was definitely causing issues. But if that isn't the case [which it's not in terms of the D14] then no, your comment is not relevant. The SecuFirm 2 mounting system by Noctua is excellent, and doesn't strain the motherboard at all. Noctua know what they are doing, their engineers design these things and test them

 

When I first ordered the D14 [three builds ago] I drew up a design for an extra support bracket. Guess what? As soon as I installed the D14 I realised it was totally unnecessary, Noctua's mounting system is fit for purpose, does the job great. My concerns were groundless so I scrapped my home made support bracket. I have owned mine for three PC builds, I know they are safe.

 

As for moving our PC's. I believe the advice you refer to was when "shipping" our PC's, not "moving" them. My PC has been moved all over the place with ZERO issues. Obviously when shipping our PC's in the post, common sense is required.

 

 

 

Is the high weight dangerous for the CPU or socket?

No. Noctua coolers possess an extremely reliable SecuFirm™ mounting system. Even transporting the pc with the cooler installed is entirely safe. Thanks to the screw connection with the backplate on the rear side of the motherboard, the exceedance of the weight recommendations by Intel and AMD common among high-end coolers is completely unobjectionable.

 

 

http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=faqs&step=2&products_id=34&lng=en#1

The Car example is relevant as when a car hose bursts it sprays hot water/steam throughout the engine compartment and even into the car itself - many electronic controls are in the engine compartment any way.

 

 Are you saying the electronics is somehow weirdly impervious to water. Thus water cooling is safe? That clearly isn't the case. leaks in a car can and do cause electrical issues.

 

I'm 55 years old. I have been driving for 38 years. How many cars do you think I have driven?

 

Trust me, it's many. And in all that time, having experienced radiator leaks quite a few times, not once has water/steam been spayed throughout the interior of the car. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am saying it's a gross exaggeration. Thus car engine cooling can't be compared with PC cooling. It's many orders of magnitude less of an issue.

 

What you are conveniently ignoring, is the fact that in a computer, we are DIRECTLY cooling sensitive electronics with water. Water blocks are directly connected to the CPU, and often the GPU and motherboard. However, in an internal combustion engine we are NOT cooling the electronics at all, we are cooling the engine.

 

Thus, an issue in a PC is obviously many times more likely when we have water cooling in DIRECT contact with sensitive electronic equipment.

 

In any regard your statement isn't relevant, as we already know cooling of electronics with water is not new. But that doesn't tell us anything at all about the likelihood of leaks. Air cooling obviously poses zero risk of leaks.

Hi Martin, I am not saying I had issues with my NHD14 on my Asus Mobo builds, it is more of a concern on my part. Having said that, the space factor around the CPU is really my main draw to the X60 (or any liquid cooler for that matter. One real annoyance for me was the access to and the restricted choices of memory that had to tuck under one side of the NHD14 on my builds.

 

Regards,

 

Fair enough Rick.

 

I've considered the H110 for the space factor too, purely for aesthetic reasons.

Many experts recommend only delidding Haswell cpus if they are air cooled - its inferred that delidding is not needed if you use water cooling.

 

 

 

And again... you haven't specified what kind of water cooling you are referring to. So this isn't relevant at all to your over generalised statement that "water cooling is more efficient".

 

The issue with Ivy Bridge and Haswell, is that the thermal interface material between the die and heat spreader is of poor quality and in a thick layer. Thus, above a certain voltage/temperature threshold, the TIM acts more like an insulator than conductor. Thus, we hit a thermal brick wall. At that point, it's unlikely that even a full blown water cooling loop will help much. It may help some, but not as much as after delidding.

 

I've seen many examples of individuals that haven't de-lidded, and are experiencing higher temps than they expected, despite full blown water cooling loops.