Noctua's mounting system is fit for purpose, does the job great.

 

Are you talking about this unit? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018

 

If so, I've tried one of these and found them to have some key problems:

 

1.  Efficient air cooling requires a cool air source into and most importantly a way OUT of the case, this design just blows hot around inside the case ... it would be critical to get a cool air source from outside the case and then vent the hot air outside the case ... to do that you will need a shroud for intake air and a shroud for exhaust air (space become a real issue).

 

2.  The mounts allow for heat expansion on one side only -- this produced uneven cooling.  Problem is worse for any vertical mounting position.

 

Air cooling can be effective, but without proper shrouding of intake and exhaust air it's efficiency is greatly reduced.  With water cooling, water flow control is critical to maximize heat exchange ... flowing water too fast introduces cavitation (air bubbles) in the water block.

 

I've seen this equation used A LOT in overclocker forums/web sites and it's misleading:

 

Q = M x C x Delta T

 

Heat transfer (Q) equals the mass flow rate (M) times a Constant (the specific heat of water) times the Delta T (fluid temp out minus fluid temp in).  In a perfect world of flow and surface area this is fine, but in the real world of CPU cooling blocks, tubing, and radiators, then water flow will introduce cavitation and cavitation reduces the heat exchange process considerably.  It's all about avoiding cavitation, and to do that you need to regulate water flow and have a very well designed CPU block and radiator and avoid 90 degree elbows (use mandrel bends 60-45 degrees).

 

Water cooling has the advantage of removing heat via water to a radiator and then the heat is transferred out of the radiator via air flow ... the key being transferred OUT of the case (placing the radiator at the top of the case).  But again, too much water flow will prevent the radiator from being efficient.

 

Rob

I can't stand noisy water cooling systems (been there). 

 

If you want really quite AND performance it is hard to beat three 750 rpm fans on the HD-14, two of which are 150mm  (also helps to punch out the rear screen for less restricted airflow).

 

 

 

 

Noisy water cooling? My Corsair H80 isnt even noticble. Ive heard aircoolers that sound like jet engines.

 

 

I can't stand noisy water cooling systems (been there).

 

Agree with Rendi, noisy water cooling??  My water cooled PC is almost as quiet as my MacPro.

Maybe it's just me, but what with ATC chatter and then my T7 gets started up, or just about any game besides FSX that people get into, how does anybody hear their cooling system anyway? I know that once I am half way through my preflight, things start getting fairly noisy in my cockpit.

 

Regards,

After takeoff, I usually turn the volume down - no sense it hearing that noise during 1-2 hour flight ... preserve my ears (maybe I'm just getting old).  Turn volume back up on descent and landing.

 

But I'm also working on my PC 8-12 hours a day coding so no PC noise is a good thing for me.

If it doesn't matter to you, great, fly on.

 

As stated, this was talking about near silent cooling with very good cooling (4.4 on a non delided Haswell with 16GB of ram thru the IMC)

Having worked on as many variations of custom systems over the years with my the good friends over at ForzenCPU with pretty much unlimited possibilities I can say I haven't come across a config yet that competes at those near zero noise levels with as much cooling power without getting ridiculously huge foot print or cost as what I just showed.

 

And any person that thinks that water systems are quiet obviously doesn't know what silent means and if you don't care to learn something new and better to expand your own horizon good for you. :lol:

 

NF-A15 @ 750 fans are more silent than any pump you are humming with, oh I mean using, let alone add to that how fast your fans running to keep up with the demand for stable temps=static pressure needed on dense radiator =more noise and just what fans are you using?=more noise, and IF you try to compensate by lowering power on the H2O it wont keep up with your O/C  for long.

 

For all others interested, there are some test out there that substantiate this and if you want a guiet no frills, easy low cost low maintenance solution the one I posted above is hard to beat. B)

PigsinSpace suggests:-

"And any person that thinks that water systems are quiet obviously doesn't know what silent means and if you don't care to learn something new and better to expand your own horizon good for you."

 

Perhaps you haven't listened to the new Swiftech (self designed and manufactured) pumps. The 6 watt PWM one featured as part of the H220 product I own is exceptionally quiet as fitted in my Nanoxia Deep Silence one case. It cools my 4770K @ 4.4K non de-lidded cpu well too.

1.  Efficient air cooling requires a cool air source into and most importantly a way OUT of the case, this design just blows hot around inside the case ... it would be critical to get a cool air source from outside the case and then vent the hot air outside the case ... to do that you will need a shroud for intake air and a shroud for exhaust air (space become a real issue).

 

 

You are vastly overstating your case Rob. At the front of most cases you have fans, or a fan, and in the case of a negative pressure enclosure, atmospheric pressure feeding air into the enclosure. Then we have no less than two fans on the D14, directing air toward the rear of the case. And then we have the rear enclosure fan, in very close proximity to the D14 heat sink, a matter of millimetres away... this does a great job of exhausting warm air. Trust me, the temperature of the air exhausting from my case is proof of that.

 

So your concerns aren't really relevant in practice. Further more, CPU coolers of this design have been around for decades, and have proven their effectiveness.

 

Something else you may not be aware of, is that "by design" the central fan on the D14 overlaps the heat sink. It was deigned this way purposely by Noctua, to blow cool air over the motherboard. So in fact, we absolutely want to blow air around the case.

 

I could also point to my motherboard temperatures that are low, well within the required temp.

 

 

2.  The mounts allow for heat expansion on one side only -- this produced uneven cooling.  Problem is worse for any vertical mounting position.

 

 

 

Well, not noticed that myself. I believe you are referring to each CPU core, yes? There is always a variation in CPU core temp, there will always be one core hotter than the others. Less so with delidding. But no, as I say, personally I haven't noticed an anything unusual in that respect.

 

 

Air cooling can be effective, but without proper shrouding of intake and exhaust air it's efficiency is greatly reduced. 

 

 

 

Greatly, you say greatly... No, that's not the case. The proof of the pudding is in the eating Rob. My CPU temps with the D14 are excellent... So why do you think all the reviews, where numerous coolers are tested, demonstrate such great cooling from the D14? Do you see that if your statement were correct, then that wouldn't be so. 

 

Look at the reviews, the capabilities of the D14 speak for themselves, despite your hypothesis.

 

                    

http://www.guru3d.co..._review,13.html

 

H100i 76 degrees

Kraken X60 70 degrees [Noisy higher RPM fans]

Corsair H110 72 degrees [Very quiet]

NH-D14 72 degrees [Very quiet]

 

 

 

Water cooling has the advantage of removing heat via water to a radiator and then the heat is transferred out of the radiator via air flow ... the key being transferred OUT of the case

 

 

 

 

You are vastly overstating the relevance. Your motherboard temp needs to be low enough to enable a stable overclock, within the MB manufacturers specs. That's all. The D14 does that, by directing air from the overlapping 140 fan, directly over the motherboard.

 

My infra red thermometer tells me that the D14 is doing a great jog of exhausting hot air.

 

So to summarize Rob, I think you are hypothesising that there are issues and exaggerating their relevance.

 

There aren't issues, otherwise those of us with the D14 wouldn't be getting such great results. Our CPU temps are fantastic, and our motherboards are cool enough to provide a stable overcook.

I can't stand noisy water cooling systems (been there). 

 

If you want really quite AND performance it is hard to beat three 750 rpm fans on the HD-14, two of which are 150mm  (also helps to punch out the rear screen for less restricted airflow).

 

 

 

 

Water cooling can be quiet, but yes, I agree with you. My NH-D14 set up is the same. VERY quiet, and fantastic cooling. Motherboard temps great, nice stable overclock. And that's been the situation for three PC builds.

 

Interesting mod to remove the rear fan and grill, and mount the rear case fan on the D14.

 

How much better would you say that is, compared to the standard set up?

 

As for water cooling, as I said above, I'm not against water. You can't beat a full blown custom loop. But in regard to AIO water coolers, they DO leak from time to time, and I would say it's not possible to definitively state how common such leaks are. The manufacturers don't release such information.

 

So for me, for now, I'll stick to air cooling courtesy of the D14. It works, simple as that.

 

 

So to summarize Rob, I think you are hypothesising that there are issues and exaggerating their relevance.

 

I think you read more into what I said ... I was not suggesting D14 is ineffective, I said it's layout in the case without shrouding is not maximizing it's efficiency.  If you take a look at PigsInSpace pictures there are tabs and all kinds of other case elements that are disrupting air flow out of the case.  To improve the units performance at the very least have and air exhaust shroud that will prevent the hot from being re-introduced into the case.

 

 

But in regard to AIO water coolers, they DO leak from time to time, and I would say it's not possible to definitively state how common such leaks are. The manufacturers don't release such information.

 

I've been using water cooling for over 14 years without a single unit leaking.  I agree, if there is a part failure or incorrect install, there is potential for a leak.  But like I said, 14 years of doing this and leak free.

 

But to re-state my original opinion, be it water/air, air only, or water/air/peltier it's not going to make a huge difference in one's peak stable overclock -- we're looking at 300-600 Mhz (over standard overclocking process with a standard air cooler) and that results in about 2 fps in FSX (best case).

 

I'm currently using an H100 and it was very easy to install, self contained, quiet, and has kept me overclocked between 4.6 - 5Ghz without a single issue over the past almost 2 years.  It's A (one of many) solutions that has worked well for me.  One of the keys to overclocking success is motherboard choice.

 I said it's layout in the case without shrouding is not maximizing it's efficiency.  If you take a look at PigsInSpace pictures there are tabs and all kinds of other case elements that are disrupting air flow out of the case.  To improve the units performance at the very least have and air exhaust shroud that will prevent the hot from being re-introduced into the case.

 

 

 

 

 

I understand were you are coming from, but it is just not the case for two reasons:

 

1. Do some measurements on a flow bench and you will come to appreciate that shrouding is very restrictive unless A - you are using some very powerful fans (noise) or B it is large enough to handle the introduction and outflow with out restricting - which usual means impractical in size - so all you are doing is isolating the air from mixing with warm air (IF that is the problem) but now it is slowed down even more, one step forward and one step back.

 

But yet...

 

2. Look at my case again and you will see that there are two large 150mm fans above that are blowing in fresh air directly above the D14  and that fresh cooler-air it wants a quick exit and the nearest one is those three fans leading to  an open port with a 150mm fan leading the way. there are two front 120mm fans at 500 rpm and one bottom 120mm fan all blowing in as well. The Video card is blowing out and the PSU has its own intro-outro fans.

 

Much home work done on several configs using pretty much the same layout and we have had guys knocking themselves out trying to come up with a better quiet and cool system and it has yet to be beat. This has been repeated at many tech-sites but with only two fans and they were 140mm, when Noctua introduced the 150mm recently the combination of using three was the icing on the cake.

Up to now I never had any leaking with my LC systems .

And this is the third case with LC since 2004.

 

So to say that LCS do leak from time to time is not what my experience is.

All my cases were from Thermaltake :

- Bigwater 750

- Kandalf LCS

- GT10 LCS

I think you read more into what I said ...

 

 

Not really. This is what you said, and I quote...

 

 

If so, I've tried one of these and found them to have some key problems:

 

 

You said "key Problems"

 

Key: an instrumental or deciding factor

 

Problem:  something that is difficult to deal with : something that is a source of trouble, worry, etc.

 

 

No Rob, there are not "key problems".   :smile:

 

 I said it's layout in the case without shrouding is not maximizing it's efficiency.

 

 

 

No Rob, you said lack of shrouds GREATLY reduces efficiency, which is  an exaggeration. The effect is minimal, I know I've experimented with such things many times, just for fun.

 

 

 If you take a look at PigsInSpace pictures there are tabs and all kinds of other case elements that are disrupting air flow out of the case.  

To improve the units performance at the very least have and air exhaust shroud that will prevent the hot from being re-introduced into the case.

 

 

Not relevant. The increase in efficiency would be minimal, and not relevant because we already know that the D14 competes very nicely with AIO water coolers. See the reviews. Beating the H100i for example. And while maintaining very good motherboard temps, partly due to the central 140 fan that's actually designed to blow cool air over the motherboard.

 

To improve the units performance at the very least have and air exhaust shroud that will prevent the hot from being re-introduced into the case.

 

 

 

Well no, from what Mr Piggs has said, it looks like he has a balanced, or possibly positive enclosure pressure. Not my choice, balanced or negative for me, but there would be no re-introduction of warm air into the case with a balanced or positive enclosure pressure.

 

As long as MB temps are low enough to enable a stable overclock, that's all we need. D14 achieves that and more. My limiting factor for overclocking is not my motherboard temp.

 

We enthusiasts usually have top mounted case fans that also greatly improve enclosure/motherboard temps. So no, your points are not really worthy of consideration, in terms of analysing the suitability of the D14 for the task at hand.

 

The points you raise are often raised by water cooling fans. And just as in the negative/positive enclosure pressure debates, advocates usually overstate the relevance of less than relevant points .

 

 

But to re-state my original opinion, be it water/air, air only, or water/air/peltier it's not going to make a huge difference in one's peak stable overclock -- we're looking at 300-600 Mhz (over standard overclocking process with a standard air cooler) and that results in about 2 fps in FSX (best case).

 

 

Glad you agree that when you said shrouds GREATLY compromise cooling you were incorrect. If it's not going to make a huge difference, then the words greatly and key problems, were probably misleading choices.

Up to now I never had any leaking with my LC systems .

And this is the third case with LC since 2004.

 

So to say that LCS do leak from time to time is not what my experience is.

All my cases were from Thermaltake :

- Bigwater 750

- Kandalf LCS

- GT10 LCS

 

 

 

Well, leak from "time to time" is precisely that. Many will have zero leaks during the entire lifetime of their AIO water cooler. So it doesn't surprise me that you haven't had any issues.

 

I don't wish to deride AIO water coolers, I have considered the H110 myself in the past. But what I am saying, is that we have no idea how likely leaks are from AIO coolers, simply because the manufacturers will not release any information in terms of failure rates,

 

There are plenty that have had leaks straight out of the box, prior to installation, and many that have had leaks after installation. What percentage fail, I have no idea, but some do indeed fail. Which brings me to an important point...

 

Air cooling can't leak. Not unless you take a hacksaw to the heat pipes.