>Do the A/C fly airways?They'll fly exactly where their flying in reality,one thing about the Air Nav system there are no "canned" flights. If a real flight takes off and gets out 20 miles and has to return because of mechanical problmes then thats what you'd see in COF.Another person brought up a good point of how those aircraft flying in real time would interact with the COF ATC.David

>So is it fair to summarize the AirNav subscription fee as a>more current version (up to the time you launch FS) of an>Ultimate Traffic update, but limited to the United States?Well...if its like their Tracking software then it runs six months and then you have to renew. Also,if its like the tracking software then there is a set amount of time you get per month--although its pretty generous,that would be another question to ask Air Nav.I can't figure why its limited to the US only,their tracking software isn't. You can track flights to Hawaii,down in the Carribean,across to England. This shows flights to and from Hawaii:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/100946.jpgHere's a shot of the tracking software running,version 2. Note on the task bar how many aircraft are in the air and being tracked. This is in the evening,usually the number is over 6,400.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/100939.jpg

Just as a side comment, one of the screenshots on their website is of EDFF - Frankfurt in Germany.I won't be getting it. Not even close to my price bracket for what it is.As another side comment, I think you'll find that the delay in showing where an aircraft is may well be a US Government "security" requirement that came into place after the September 11th... Although if you can see where it will be in 10 minutes on the screen, you'll know where it'll be in 10 minutes time, so I'm not sure how much use that is really!!!Ian P.

>Just as a side comment, one of the screenshots on their>website is of ED FF - Frankfurt in Germany.>>I won't be getting it. Not even close to my price bracket for>what it is.>>As another side comment, I think you'll find that the delay in>showing where an aircraft is may well be a US Government>"security" requirement that came into place after the>September 11th... Although if you can see where it will be in>10 minutes on the screen, you'll know where it'll be in 10>minutes time, so I'm not sure how much use that is really!!!>>Ian P.Yeah,its one of the little things thats bugged me about the tracking package. Its not that big of a deal tracking a Cessna 172,but with the heavy iron there can be as much as 60-70 miles difference from what they show vs reality. It can be verified easily if you live somewhat near an airport and have a scanner. If your picking someone up from the airport it really becomes an issue that you have to take in account.I don't know if it is a security issue of a limitation of that package. I'm thinking that Version 6 might be in "real" time,but I'm not sure. I ran across a much cheaper,very dumbed down tracking program the other day and it was running much closer to real time than the AirNav program so I think its them,not a security thing. Wouldn't take terrorist to long to figure out a ten minute delay and just wait.David

Soooooo, no more ac stacks on final? No endless go-arounds?? Sequencing??? Sounds good to me! But does atc recognize traffic?

Why the hell doesn't someone from AirNav get on here and clear up some of the confusion? Anybody know anytbody there?

Hello,I have this program - FSLIVE. my take on it is as follows:1.The download that you request BEFORE you start FS2004 is "live" at the time you request it.2. It creates a traffic file called FSLIVE.bgl3. If you have NO OTHER TRAFFIC FILES ACTIVE then the traffic at all airports that have active traffic (in/out and parked) is available at those locations. 4. I am getting between 6000 and 8000 active flights at the time I request the download.5. The traffic seems to be in the US and Canada6. I have not researched other locations other than I looked in Europe at EGLL and EHAM and saw NO TRAFFIC AT ALL - so I guess that it is US area only.7. I am using it BEFORE I want to start a flight and then go to that location and set the time at the time that the download was taken.8. The traffic is dynamic WITHIN FS2004 - it reacts just the same as UT or MYtraffic. It works with the ATC because it is in a BGL the same as all other FS2004 traffic would be. 9. If you change your time setting the traffic changes along with you - go to far and you probably go beyond what is at that location at the new time.I posted to try and find a "traffic file" display program like the old TRAFFIC BOARD (does not work with FS2004) but got no response. If I could find such a program, I would be able to report better on the contents of the traffic file. I do see some data on European flights but don't know how to "decode" all of the info on the data lines that I xlated with TTOOLS.Good luck,Ron Sagel

Thanks Ron for posting that information.So it does run as I said in my previous post. It takes a "snapshot" of traffic data just prior to running FS, and creates the FSLIVE.BGL file. Therefore, traffic will only be as current as the time the file is created. I will not see traffic delays 3 hours into my sim flight, only those currently in effect at the time FSLIVE.BGL was created.It also appears the data does include flights outside the US, but only if the flight originates, or departs from a US location. This is something I already expected when I said the product is limited to the US. I didn't mean only within the US borders, but the flight plan must contain a US airport.The product basically gives you something that is very similar to the semi-annual Ultimate Traffic update, only the schedules are current right up to the point you download the data, and limited to US destinations/arrivals. One would then need to supplement this traffic file with another product if they were not traveling near or in the US.I have one additional question. Does FSLIVE only grab the flights that are current at the time the bgl is created or does it combine current flights with historically recurring flights from the past week? If it's only the currently active flights, that would not be good since the longer you fly (transoceanic, for example), the ai traffic would decline until all current flights have arrived at their destinations. What then? Do they just sit at the gate until you shutdown and generate a new FSLIVE.bgl? If the bgl also includes the previous week's schedule, the current traffic would continue working based on what happened one week prior.Ron, you can inspect the traffic files in fs2004 by using the alpha version of AI Traffic Mover available here:http://www.molitor-home.de/FS/AITM/

I downloaded a new FSLIVE update and set up a flight from KPHL (used to live in the area) to KCHS (where I live). I did a little "stopping" at the airports on the way ( just used the sim to put an A/C at each and look around at the traffic)and looked at the traffic that was leaving (like Washington). I then went to KPHL and requested a South depart with my Cessna CJ1. The traffic at the airport was really intense. Arrivals and Departures were very active. I waited in line and took off and went South. On the way I spotted at least three flights that were headed North from what I think was Washington.I tagged along behing an AB319 thet took off before me - headed South. I don't know if this program is really worth it to those who just want good traffic such as UT and MyTraffic produce, but I must say, to the somewhat uneducated in real world flying like me (just a sim pilot here), this program does provide real scheduled AI flights at the time of the download. They do not update (other than AI simulation )after you download the info, but, if the flight was scratched BEFORE you download, it will not takeoff and will probably be still at the gate.Happy flying,Ron Sagel

Thanks for the tip on the editor. I'll use it more later but I did peak at an older TTools file that I had from this AM and all flights are to/from the US. There are no European flights to European Airports. You can "merge" info from MyTraffic with this info (they claim it is compatable)but I don't have the moxie to know what the end result would be. I bet a skilled user could create a combo that used "supporting" flights to surround this on-line data with the rest of the environment.Anyway,Thanks again and blue skies!Ron Sagel

Is there a list of the 75 aircraft models anywhere?

It would be interesting to determine which are these 75 models they advertise. Besides, I'm observing in the images they have in KDFW some AA planes as AI. Since the well-known story between AA and the Flight Simulator Community, is it legal that this company sells its product using AA trademarks?, AFAIK Ultimate Traffic offers this update at no cost.Regards,

A neat premise but somewhat confusing as to their subscription rates. In one area it reads $60 for a 6 month automatic renewal, in another it's only good for 3 months, and the higher dollar version it's $70 for 6 months, manual renewal. Tried the demo, it was pretty good. Too spendy for me, even if you do get additional modified airports. IMHO, they need to rethink their subscription rates. At the current price, I'm not interested.Kind Regards,Brad StreeterKKLS

I agree. Looks really nice and I'd love to have it, but that's a lot of money. I'd almost rather pay a higher price for the package and get free server access for flight plans or a little higher price and a minimal price every six months for server access. They need to rethink their strategy with pricing. Fifty or seventy every six months is expensive for a sim game.

Maybe Flight One can tap off of the same database that Air Nav and do the same online updates for Ultimate Traffic?Maybe that is why the cost is so high, because Air Nav has to pay a premium to use it?I wonder what the source of this real time flight data is?Barry