Stupid Mistake; What would be the Real-World consequences?

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I completely wrote off the idea of any door or hatch being open because on the second phase of the FS2Crew pre-flight checks the FO will bring it to your attention if there is a doorlight on, but only the passenger and cargo doors, not the equipment hatch because he allowed me to continue with checks when he would have said "Hang on, we have a door light, we need to check that" if it had been a passenger or any of the cargo doors. Still not a justification for my not checking, but just another reason why I let things just "go"

 

Still confused as to why you had it open in the first place.  Again, it's only there for maint, if needed, so unless I'm mistaken, you will very rarely see it open at all at the gate.

 

 

 

So now I have a blemish on my on time record after 60 consecutive on time departures, a permanent blotch on my flying record, and the virtual flight attendant I was going to dinner with this weekend called and she cancelled our date

 

Seems like your issues are being compounded by a lack of understanding of your OOOI times (out off on in).  On time departures (currently) are tracked by your 'out' time.  Your 'out' time generally kicks off via ACARS automatically, depending on the company set of triggers (normally some combination of: beacon on, main cabin door closed, parking brake off).  So, as long as you've pushed within so many minutes of your scheduled departure time (there's a window after the actual time), you're "on time."  Ever wonder why flights will push from the gate only to sit in the penalty box for an hour?  By pushing off of the gate on time, they're marked as on time in the stats, even though they haven't departed due to an ATC delay (though, another reason they do this is to be the first in line, or near the runway in general when the restriction lifts).

 

You are not tracked for your 'off' time, because by that point, you're in the system and subject to ATC sequencing which is out of your control.

 

So...cut the rushing around, supersonic taxiing, and taxiway chicken with other planes.

[dho112 17]

Kyle,

 

That shows you how little I know about real world flight operations!  I'm not a pilot at all and so my laymen's assumption wasn't taking when the clock REALLY starts, into account :(

 

As far as the equipment hatch being open.  I always do that as a sort of worst case scenario thing at the gate (that there was something to be checked) and that it was something for me to keep track of as a sort of challenge.  I figured that if I could remember many steps, then I could remember fewer, but that didn't work out in this case :(

 

Now that I know when the clock starts, I can breathe a little easier from now on about being on time It's funny because I know quite a bit about the operation of the simulated aircraft and I think that talking in the proper acronyms and terminology about it at times might lull other simmers into a false sense that I'm not a moron about most flight operations, still learning with a lot to learn, and still filled with quite a few misconceptions about how it CAN work in FSX, and how its SUPPOSED to work properly.

 

p.s. James, I was an MSF motorcycle safety instructor for 5 years and trained hundreds of people how to ride safely.  I'm much better at that then flying a 737 LoL!  Besides, I ride a ZX-10r  with a solo seat

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

That shows you how little I know about real world flight operations! I'm not a pilot at all and so my laymen's assumption wasn't taking when the clock REALLY starts, into account

 

It's a reasonable assumption to think that it really starts when your wheels leave the ground, but once you break it down, you'll see why off the gate is the value they use.

 

 

 

As far as the equipment hatch being open. I always do that as a sort of worst case scenario thing at the gate (that there was something to be checked) and that it was something for me to keep track of as a sort of challenge. I figured that if I could remember many steps, then I could remember fewer, but that didn't work out in this case

 

I can kinda see your angle, but I think the logic is kinda flawed.  Maintenance is responsible for opening and closing that.  The crew, as mentioned earlier, is responsible for ensuring it was closed during a walk around.  The problem, though, is that FSX doesn't really put you through a walkaround, and you're the one doing the opening and closing through the FMC menu as if you were maintenance.  By opening it randomly to "challenge" yourself, you're really just setting yourself up for failure.  It's better to stick to normal operations, or the 99% case scenario (again, that door probably opens about 1% of the time, and you're not the one doing the opening/closing).  Get used to that 99% case scenario, and then things like lights being lit in the incorrect spot will be more obvious.

 

It's a lot easier for the human brain to spot something that's out of sorts when it's glaringly out of sorts.  In other words, if a light is NEVER on, and then one random flight it happens to be on, your scan of the overhead is more likely to catch it.  If it's sporadically on as a random challenge (particularly if you're still getting used to everything), it's not going to be as obvious.

 

 

 

Now that I know when the clock starts, I can breathe a little easier from now on about being on time It's funny because I know quite a bit about the operation of the simulated aircraft and I think that talking in the proper acronyms and terminology about it at times might lull other simmers into a false sense that I'm not a moron about most flight operations, still learning with a lot to learn, and still filled with quite a few misconceptions about how it CAN work in FSX, and how its SUPPOSED to work properly.

 

haha - it's called sophomorism.  Knowing enough to think you know a lot, but really not knowing enough to know you're dangerous to yourself yet.  The sim realm is full of it, honestly (believe you me, I was once that way...in some ways, I still am).

 

Case in point:

People get on VATSIM and file "RW PILOT" in the comments as a qualifier of skill.  The vast majority of those who do that are PPLs at best, so they feel like they know a lot, and should be given a lot of lattitude.  When it comes to IFR knowledge, though, they have zero real world experience, so that "RW PILOT" does them no good in the IFR environment, which is most of VATSIM.  Their "aww man, I'm a private pilot now, so I'm awesome!!!" is getting in the way of their ability to self-check and assume they might be missing something.  As such, when I see that in flight plans, I actually give them less lattitude, less trust, and pay more attention to them.

[dho112 17]

Thank you for all the help and information Kyle, I appreciate it!

 

I've never flown on VATSIM because to be honest, I'm incredibly intimidated at being the the guy on there that's screwing up constantly and destroying the suspension of disbelief for everyone else.  I always listen to LiveATC.net and the proper ARTCC in the background while I'm flying the 737 for the ambience, and the information flies by so quickly and sometimes in such a garbled way (to my untrained ear) that I find it overwhelming.  I am getting better though at discerning what's being said and how, but very slowly as time passes.  I know that from the VATSIM information I've read at the website they say they're welcoming and very helpful to people who are new and I totally believe that, but I just want to make certain before I use it that feel more comfortable with operating the NGX so its not a constant challenge at both ends of the spectrum; flying and communicating

 

Again, thanks for your insights!

 

p.s.  Oh!  by the way, I think the reason that I open and close the equipment hatch is because of one flight years ago out of Long Beach where the 737 was delayed for mechanical problems and they actually deboarded us and as I was watching from the gate windows a maintenance person came out and opened the equipment hatch (I don't know why) did something, closed it and then we all were able to get back on board and didn't have to switch aircraft. I think that experience just stuck with me for some reason

[James Bennett 52]

Kyle,

 

That shows you how little I know about real world flight operations!  I'm not a pilot at all and so my laymen's assumption wasn't taking when the clock REALLY starts, into account :(

 

As far as the equipment hatch being open.  I always do that as a sort of worst case scenario thing at the gate (that there was something to be checked) and that it was something for me to keep track of as a sort of challenge.  I figured that if I could remember many steps, then I could remember fewer, but that didn't work out in this case :(

 

Now that I know when the clock starts, I can breathe a little easier from now on about being on time It's funny because I know quite a bit about the operation of the simulated aircraft and I think that talking in the proper acronyms and terminology about it at times might lull other simmers into a false sense that I'm not a moron about most flight operations, still learning with a lot to learn, and still filled with quite a few misconceptions about how it CAN work in FSX, and how its SUPPOSED to work properly.

 

p.s. James, I was an MSF motorcycle safety instructor for 5 years and trained hundreds of people how to ride safely.  I'm much better at that then flying a 737 LoL!  Besides, I ride a ZX-10r  with a solo seat

Just don't set off with that fuel cap open

[dho112 17]

lol! You can't do that on a sportbike, you get this painful digging sensation in your chest as you're laying on the tank and its stabbing you in the sternum

[tcas_climb 45]

I will share a real world experience I had the other day.

 

I was at work and had cleared an MD88 for takeoff, just as the aircraft began its takeoff roll the phone rang, it was the operations center who called frantically to tell us to stop the plane because an access panel was accidentally left open by the ground crew during pushback. Of course I knew better than to stop the aircraft for something like that so when it was airborne I advised the pilots and their reply, was basically it's nothing to worry about, based on its design it should remain closed by aerodynamic forces.

[Jack C 8]

I've never flown on VATSIM because to be honest, I'm incredibly intimidated at being the the guy on there that's screwing up constantly and destroying the suspension of disbelief for everyone else. I always listen to LiveATC.net and the proper ARTCC in the background while I'm flying the 737 for the ambience, and the information flies by so quickly and sometimes in such a garbled way (to my untrained ear) that I find it overwhelming. I am getting better though at discerning what's being said and how, but very slowly as time passes. I know that from the VATSIM information I've read at the website they say they're welcoming and very helpful to people who are new and I totally believe that, but I just want to make certain before I use it that feel more comfortable with operating the NGX so its not a constant challenge at both ends of the spectrum; flying and communicating

 

And that's why I think a true shared cockpit will increase the traffic for VATSIM. So the people that feel intimidated can be taught one on one. Nice to see Majestic coming out with it. Would be nice to see PMDG do it too.

As for your zx10, nice bike. I think my wife is going to step up her gsxr600 to the 10R. I have the ZX14 and love it.

[Continental737 7]

Probably the end of your career at that airline!

Probable not, US pilots have made much larger mistakes and kept there jobs.

[James Bennett 52]

Probable not, US pilots have made much larger mistakes and kept there jobs.

 

Frankly that concerns me.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I've never flown on VATSIM because to be honest, I'm incredibly intimidated at being the the guy on there that's screwing up constantly and destroying the suspension of disbelief for everyone else. I always listen to LiveATC.net and the proper ARTCC in the background while I'm flying the 737 for the ambience, and the information flies by so quickly and sometimes in such a garbled way (to my untrained ear) that I find it overwhelming. I am getting better though at discerning what's being said and how, but very slowly as time passes. I know that from the VATSIM information I've read at the website they say they're welcoming and very helpful to people who are new and I totally believe that, but I just want to make certain before I use it that feel more comfortable with operating the NGX so its not a constant challenge at both ends of the spectrum; flying and communicating

 

Thanks for that (waiting until you're familiar).  Too many people buy a plane the first day it comes out and decide to take it out on VATSIM.  It makes it impossible to control when the pilot can't control the plane he or she is flying.

 

At the same time, I wouldn't hold off on VATSIM because you think you'll ruin the suspension of disbelief.  As long as you have a decent understanding of things - climb, descend, turn to a heading, proceed direct to a fix -  you're set.  If you've ever been listening to LiveATC and notice the controller changes the speed of his or her delivery for a pilot, most good controllers will do that on VATSIM, too.  As long as it's not a busy night (most weeknights), the controller will probably even help you out via private message (for what it's worth, the people controlling CTR - center - positions have been around the longest, generally).  If they can't, they can call a supervisor over to help you out, too.

[dho112 17]

I've incorporated a new step in my departure procedure in FSX;

 

I begin every flight with a particularly detailed flight planning phase, including of course the route, scheduling, fuel loads, weather (with AS2012), notams, metars etc etc...

 

Since I use FS2Crew and GSX Ground Environment software this also includes the boarding of passengers, loading of cargo, fueling trucks, catering service, tow vehicles and more...

 

The new step is a virtual walk-around.  I understand that it's the first officer that normally performs this, but with EZdok, walking around the plane outside is easy and very graphically impressive, and adds just another aspect of realism to the whole flying experience  While outside, you can hear the motors of the power unit chugging away if connected, the whine of the air conditioning unit, and when planes taxi by while you're outside, you get a visceral rush from the sound of their engines as they pass.  You'll hear the roar of a plane taking off in the distance, look over your shoulder and see a Southwest jet climbing into the sky.

 

I realize that this step is nothing more than a additional graphical cue, but If I had done this walkaround prior to the offending flight in the original post, I would have seen the potential problem, or at least had it in mind before it became a problem

 

An actual walk-around incorporated into PMDG or another add-on would be very engaging!  They could incorporate service based failures generated in PMDG for things like "Hey!  Why is there a puddle of hydraulic fluid under the left undercarriage?!" or "Why are the right flaps partially deployed when the left flaps are stowed?" or "Does the APU normally make that much smoke while it's running?  Is it overheating?"

 

My walkaround, and the clearly evil, equipment hatch!  The walkaround is also a wonderful way to see all the great detail PMDG puts into its 3D models...

[James Bennett 52]

I've incorporated a new step in my departure procedure in FSX;

 

I begin every flight with a particularly detailed flight planning phase, including of course the route, scheduling, fuel loads, weather (with AS2012), notams, metars etc etc...

 

Since I use FS2Crew and GSX Ground Environment software this also includes the boarding of passengers, loading of cargo, fueling trucks, catering service, tow vehicles and more...

 

The new step is a virtual walk-around.  I understand that it's the first officer that normally performs this, but with EZdok, walking around the plane outside is easy and very graphically impressive, and adds just another aspect of realism to the whole flying experience  While outside, you can hear the motors of the power unit chugging away if connected, the whine of the air conditioning unit, and when planes taxi by while you're outside, you get a visceral rush from the sound of their engines as they pass.  You'll hear the roar of a plane taking off in the distance, look over your shoulder and see a Southwest jet climbing into the sky.

 

I realize that this step is nothing more than a additional graphical cue, but If I had done this walkaround prior to the offending flight in the original post, I would have seen the potential problem, or at least had it in mind before it became a problem

 

An actual walk-around incorporated into PMDG or another add-on would be very engaging!  They could incorporate service based failures generated in PMDG for things like "Hey!  Why is there a puddle of hydraulic fluid under the left undercarriage?!" or "Why are the right flaps partially deployed when the left flaps are stowed?" or "Does the APU normally make that much smoke while it's running?  Is it overheating?"

 

My walkaround, and the clearly evil, equipment hatch!  The walkaround is also a wonderful way to see all the great detail PMDG puts into its 3D models...

 

I wish i had time for that! Sounds fun. 

[dho112 17]

It really is fun James!  I have several friends who fly for VA airlines and I've noticed that many of them are all about how many flights and how many hours and flight miles they can accumulate in the shortest amount of time.  They start flights from the active and end them at wheels stop at the end of the runway.  There is nothing wrong with this of course, but for me, that connects you mainly with the flying , whereas using all of the add-ons for ambience and aircraft detail, you become connected more not only with flying, but with the aircraft itself.  For me specifically, that makes the experience far more real and engaging.

 

Listening to the first officer rustling thru paperwork in the cockpit as I'm programming the FMC, Having the flight attendant knock on the door and ask if its ok for the agents to start boarding the plane, hearing the people actually getting on the plane,  Hearing the "beep beep beep" outside of the ground equipment moving around the plane.  It just kind of does it for me LoL!

 

At every step of the flight, there's ambience that makes it more of an "adventure" from start to end, and makes one feel more like a real part of the flight then just a actor monitoring instruments until hand flying the descent.

 

It's almost like a flightplan within a flightplan as well as you try to keep in mind the particular steps that happen on the ground before and after you're actually in the air.  WIth GSX Ground Environment you have a Marshall guiding you into the gate position, and hilariously enough, some of the most anxious ridden moments of the "flight" are waiting for the crossed sticks at the end of the taxi and hoping the marshall doesn't inform you that that wasn't a very good parking job LoL!

 

As the plane is deboarding, I also get a kick out of the little kid that says suddenly "bye bye!!!"

 

One thing that FS2Crew definitely has to fix though is an awareness of day and night flights.  Listening to the flight attendant making an announcement that the inflight entertainment is about to start and it would help for people to close their window shades for better viewing by all, in the middle of a redeye flight, just kind of kills it LoL!

 

 

 

 

[Adam T Lutley 12]

This has occurred in real world flying, the only consequency  being an embarrassing return to the departure airport and a spirited chat with your friendly local FAA inspector!. I suspect it has occurred numerous times as the FWD equipment and E&E bay doors are easy to miss on the 737 unless you bend down to look at it.Regards