Hi, Emergency  B)

 

Q from a none educated 

 

What is the main difference in those two QRH ? . (not the systems -Fail passive and Fail Operational) I now the differents - only the QRH-procedures)

 

Next:

 

How would you calculate to determin if the Performance alows you to use  FLAPS 30 ?

 

What is the aviation story of VREF ICE ? 

 

 

Thanks

 

Michael

 

 

What is the main difference in those two QRH ? . (not the systems -Fail passive and Fail Operational) I now the differents - only the QRH-procedures)

 

Well... the difference is... fail-passive aircraft are not certified to land single engine with F30. Fail-op aircraft are... so, a different checklist to account for all possibilities (you don't want to use a single checklist that allows for F30 landing, as that may lead to pilots electing to land F30 OEI even in aircraft that are unable to do so.

 

 

 

How would you calculate to determin if the Performance alows you to use  FLAPS 30 ?

 

Missed approach gradient, mostly... you need to see if you can climb with needed climb speed, since if using F30 you will perform a G/A with F15, if you are landing F15, your G/A will be performed with F1.

 

 

 

What is the aviation story of VREF ICE ? 

 

Many sad stories, such as this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Ontario_Flight_1363

 

basically ice makes wing and other surfaces uneven and rough, increasing drag and decreasing lift, as well as moving stall speed higher. You would be using Vref ICE speed to get further from stall speed. Having one engine off significantly reduces your antiice/deice capabilities, so an extra precaution is made.

Thanks for your time, Pretty cool  B)

 

There is a reason for 2 pilots out there  :rolleyes:

 

Now last time i was invited to the cockpit (Maddog MD-82) i noticed these quick plates regarding airplane performance.

 

The performance-plates had not so much information but very vital information in thick big Bold Fonts.

 

First priority was weight (62 t for instance)

 

Then vital information like MAX FL, V1 VR and V2 and trim and FLAPS settings (Flaps 11 plate this time - Normal i think)

 

 

Wonder if there is something like this out there so you quickly or at least easier make a descisions rather than have to look up in the FCOM regarding these basic performances.

 

Might not be the case for emergency but would also be cool for normal procedures (then  plates for additives like rwy slope,wind etc or maybe these become routine calculations in their heads :-))

 

I know this is VERY simplified but pilots dont use there FCOM all the time right ? I didnot see that on my last flight. The MEL was discussed and pointed out during the preflight because the airstair was out of order so we had to inform ATC on arrival.

 

Michael 

 

 

Wonder if there is something like this out there so you quickly or at least easier make a descisions rather than have to look up in the FCOM regarding these basic performances.

 

 

 

I know this is VERY simplified but pilots dont use there FCOM all the time right ? I didnot see that on my last flight. The MEL was discussed and pointed out during the preflight because the airstair was out of order so we had to inform ATC on arrival.

 

All that jazz happens in computers today, at most airlines.

Either you have a laptop or a tablet onboard, or a company sends you a message via ACARS. In there, you have the speeds for your takeoff, with flap setting. This is better, because it takes more factors in, and those being more precise, allowing you to be more efficient with the departure. 

MAX FL and such are calculated by the FMC on-the-fly with actual conditions in mind - again, way more precise. 

 

So it's not that these kinds of booklets aren't handy, they are just not needed anymore.

Thanks but how would you most accurate and in less time look up if the performance allows for a flaps 30 visual on a passive?

 

Again apreciate your time and answers here.

 

Michael

Hi,

I would simply add that fail operational planes not only can land in single engine conditions with flaps 30 but in such a case autoland is reccomended!!! See page 208 of the Boeing 737 FCTM:

"900EROne Engine Inoperative - Fail Operational AirplanesILS - One Engine Inoperative737-600 - 737-900ERWith an engine inoperative, autoland operations are authorized for flaps 30 only. AFDS management and associated procedures are similar to those used during the normal ILS approach. Refer to the PI chapter of the QRH for flaps 30 gear down, engine inoperative performance. If flaps 30 performance is not satisfactory, a flaps 15 engine inoperative landing is required. Autoland operations are not authorized with flaps 15. Weather minima for an ILS approach with one engine inoperative are specified in the applicable AFM and/or the operator’s Operations Specification or equivalent.Note:After LAND 3 or LAND 2 is annunciated, use of the autothrottle for an approach with an engine inoperative is recommended for authorized operators."

 

Best Regards

Andrea Buono

 

 

What is the aviation story of VREF ICE ?

 

Having the engine anti-ice on, or having had the wing anti-ice on at any time during the flights sets the stick shaker logic for icing conditions, causing it to activate at a lower angle-of-attack.  In situations where the logic is set for icing conditions you set VREF ICE to maintain the proper stall margins during the approach.

 

 

How would you calculate to determin if the Performance alows you to use FLAPS 30 ?

In reality, company SOPs would decide if the Flap 30 option is applicable to their operation along with the state CAA for approval. If a company did define a procedure for a F30 single engine landing, then that procedure would define the conditions under which and the method for determining performance for actual conditions , probably with an EFB performance tool (like Boeing's OPT software) to determine landing climb limits and the like.

 

Also, some operators define landing engine out contingency procedures to circumvent/mitigate engine inoperative landing climb limitations. Some operators simply specify that take off engine out procedures can be used for landing. Often specific company engine out procedures are defined for specific and problematic airfields where landing weight is critical.

 

If not applicable to a company the procedure will not be included in the company QRH. I didn't even know this option existed before PMDG because I only had access my company QRH.

 

With regard to limitations, some operators are authorized for Cat3 approaches single engine flap 15, when flying them manually with the HGS - which is a different ballgame altogether.