Great question. The transition leg came from the FMC. It created it automatically to connect the Star to the ILS localizer.

Well that's really interesting, and instructive -- didn't know the FMC would do that. Makes me wonder how the FMC decides where to just identify a discontinuity or provide a solution like the transition in your video.

Thx,

Al

Edit: Just to clarify, when you say the FMC created the transition, do you mean it is not published on a chart somewhere?  I ask because somehow the FMC would have to know the safe altitudes, i.e., that there was not a tall mountain between ARLIN and BALTE. And on the other hand, if it is published somewhere, it would be available to a/c without smart FMCs. Doesn't any transition have to be FAA or ATC approved?

I'm just curious how it all works.

When I input the destination airport, runway, STAR and transition, the FMC ends the Star at ARLIN, gives a discontinuity line, and then shows BALTE (the start of the ILS approach). All I had to do was connect BALTE into the discontinuity line in the CDU and that completed the route (and created the transition leg).

 

Ralph

When I input the destination airport, runway, STAR and transition, the FMC ends the Star at ARLIN, gives a discontinuity line, and then shows BALTE (the start of the ILS approach). All I had to do was connect BALTE into the discontinuity line in the CDU and that completed the route (and created the transition leg).

 

Ralph

OK, I see, thanks Ralph. And if ARLIN direct BALTE was not a safe course for some reason I assume the FMC would object, or assign a high altitude, etc.

Guess I need to think more and type less!

Al

Ralph the one thing I noticed was you only had CMD B selected and not both.  You said Flare was armed and I didn't see it.  Finally, I did not see LAND3.  Did I miss something?  It is a really good video but I don't understand how you made an autoland without those things.

I don't know the inner workings of how the FMC selects the way points and intersections (on the ILS plates) that it does. Perhaps someone else might know the answer.

 

You can enter in some of the other ILS intersections that come before BALTE on that approach, such as CAGOR and/or FALGO, if you wanted to, but I don't know why you would. But you can do it, the FMC will accept them without complaining.

Hi Art,

 

You're right and I see what happened...I had that red AP light come on but didn't know why...I thought I hit a button on my stick and in fact I did...it tripped off the AP but I didn't hear the aural warning. I had FD left on the PFD. Things were partially restored when I pressed CMD B to bring back the AP but I thought I had CMD A on too and I didn't. So I ended up making a single AP landing.

 

That's how the landing worked but you're right, there was no Flare Arm or LAND3 as I called. So why did I call those? Well, no question I should have been paying closer attention but when you have flown 6 to 8 of these in one day just to get one good video, I guess your eyes just assume some things are there when they are not. I have no excuses. I messed it up. Tomorrow I will re-do it and upload a correct Part 4 ILS.

 

When you make videos, you most likely won't get the one you want on the first take. Or the second. At least i don't.

 

I guess the lesson here is when you get a red AP light, pay better attention!!

 

Notice: I'm going to take the video down within the hour since it's really messed up. I'll have a correct one up tomorrow.

No worries Ralph.  I have been been paying really close attention to all your videos because they are so good.  I really enjoy them and get a lot out of them.  I am a detail guy and it just sort of stood out like an "Irish Penant"  on a uniform to me.  Thanks for all the great instructional videos you have done for us.

I'm a detail guy too and I'm laughing (sadly, not happily) at myself tonight thinking how in the world did I mess this up?

 

I want to make it clear this was my screw up on the filming and my 6 reviewers had nothing to do with it. I suppose if my filming structure were done in pieces or in parts, it would be easier to just re-shoot the offending part(s) but I like to film in one continuous take. So that means a lot of takes because, being human, small mistakes happen or something is not quite right. You have to get both the audio correct and the action being filmed correct. I end up doing a lot of takes to get a good video. It just takes a lot of work, time and effort, but I really like the one continuous video shoot method.

Ralph,

Minor glitches aside, these videos have been great -- you are helping a lot of us simmers new to the 737NGX!

Thanks for all the hard work.

Al

OK, I have uploaded a version 2 Part 4 ILS video to my YouTube Channel. This one should now be correct...!!!

 

Ralph,

Thanks very much for video 4.

One thing that was not clear to me is where the approach transition from ARLIN to BALTE came from. Is this a published transition (if so, where are approach transitions typically found), or was it your own "replacement" for what would normally be vectors from ATC?

Thx,

Al

 

 

Great question. The transition leg came from the FMC. It created it automatically to connect the Star to the ILS localizer.

 

 

Well that's really interesting, and instructive -- didn't know the FMC would do that. Makes me wonder how the FMC decides where to just identify a discontinuity or provide a solution like the transition in your video.

Thx,

Al

Edit: Just to clarify, when you say the FMC created the transition, do you mean it is not published on a chart somewhere?  I ask because somehow the FMC would have to know the safe altitudes, i.e., that there was not a tall mountain between ARLIN and BALTE. And on the other hand, if it is published somewhere, it would be available to a/c without smart FMCs. Doesn't any transition have to be FAA or ATC approved?

I'm just curious how it all works.

 

 

When I input the destination airport, runway, STAR and transition, the FMC ends the Star at ARLIN, gives a discontinuity line, and then shows BALTE (the start of the ILS approach). All I had to do was connect BALTE into the discontinuity line in the CDU and that completed the route (and created the transition leg).

 

Ralph

 

 

OK, I see, thanks Ralph. And if ARLIN direct BALTE was not a safe course for some reason I assume the FMC would object, or assign a high altitude, etc.

Guess I need to think more and type less!

Al

The FMC puts a DISCO in there because it's not actually a published feeder or transition route. The FMC doesn't know if there's a mountain there or not. There are many STAR/APP combinations that do have transitions that link everything together and have been checked for altitude clearances.

 

The KOOLY4 STAR has transitions that lead right to the APP for 25LR & 26.

 

That doesn't really change the ideas of using the LNAV/VNAV to join as Ralph showed in the video.

 

I think some airlines wait until closer to the maneuvering speed before extending flaps. I wonder if the plane would have stayed on profile if you didn't drop the flaps as early.

>I think some airlines wait until closer to the maneuvering speed before extending flaps. I wonder if the plane would have stayed on profile if you didn't

>drop the flaps as early.

 

@Spin737

 

I agree that I dropped the flaps early, but that was done on purpose. When making a video, a lot of time is used talking about what you are doing and how or maybe even why you are doing something. This all takes time. One of my reviewers made the suggestion for me to briefly discuss the Maximum Maneuvering Speed Amber Bar since it comes into view when you select flaps 5. I decided to do so, but this takes time too.

 

So, a lot of things were going to happen on that transition leg lol, starting with putting out flaps 1, so that's why I did so a little earlier than normal perhaps.

 

In the end, making training videos is a compromise of when do you do what action and still have enough time to talk about it. I suppose if I had a long discussion on something I would just Pause the simulator but so far I've not had to do that.

Ralph,

Thanks very much for video 4.

One thing that was not clear to me is where the approach transition from ARLIN to BALTE came from. Is this a published transition (if so, where are approach transitions typically found), or was it your own "replacement" for what would normally be vectors from ATC?

Thx,

Al

 

 

Great question. The transition leg came from the FMC. It created it automatically to connect the Star to the ILS localizer.

 

 

Well that's really interesting, and instructive -- didn't know the FMC would do that. Makes me wonder how the FMC decides where to just identify a discontinuity or provide a solution like the transition in your video.

Thx,

Al

Edit: Just to clarify, when you say the FMC created the transition, do you mean it is not published on a chart somewhere?  I ask because somehow the FMC would have to know the safe altitudes, i.e., that there was not a tall mountain between ARLIN and BALTE. And on the other hand, if it is published somewhere, it would be available to a/c without smart FMCs. Doesn't any transition have to be FAA or ATC approved?

I'm just curious how it all works.

 

 

When I input the destination airport, runway, STAR and transition, the FMC ends the Star at ARLIN, gives a discontinuity line, and then shows BALTE (the start of the ILS approach). All I had to do was connect BALTE into the discontinuity line in the CDU and that completed the route (and created the transition leg).

 

Ralph

 

 

OK, I see, thanks Ralph. And if ARLIN direct BALTE was not a safe course for some reason I assume the FMC would object, or assign a high altitude, etc.

Guess I need to think more and type less!

Al

The FMC puts a DISCO in there because it's not actually a published feeder or transition route. The FMC doesn't know if there's a mountain there or not. There are many STAR/APP combinations that do have transitions that link everything together and have been checked for altitude clearances.

 

The KOOLY4 STAR has transitions that lead right to the APP for 25LR & 26.

The FMC puts a DISCO in there because it's not actually a published feeder or transition route. The FMC doesn't know if there's a mountain there or not. There are many STAR/APP combinations that do have transitions that link everything together and have been checked for altitude clearances.

 

The KOOLY4 STAR has transitions that lead right to the APP for 25LR & 26.

Great clarification. So I conclude that in the RW, when a DISCO is removed, it is essentially up to the pilot to ensure the "DISCO fix" is safe.

Thx much,

Al

Great clarification. So I conclude that in the RW, when a DISCO is removed, it is essentially up to the pilot to ensure the "DISCO fix" is safe.

Thx much,

Al

Usually it's either vectors with ATC maintaining obstacle clearances or you're following an actual transition route. I think for this example, we could simply pretend that ATC told us "after ARLIN proceed direct BALTE, cleared for approach."

Usually it's either vectors with ATC maintaining obstacle clearances or you're following an actual transition route. I think for this example, we could simply pretend that ATC told us "after ARLIN proceed direct BALTE, cleared for approach."

Yep, understand. Thanks again.

Al