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TangoSierraMike

Malibu Mirage 350P Sounds

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I've been flying this aircraft for while now, and while I enjoy it, the sounds seem off to me - especially the engine startup. Any r/w Mirage pilots out there care to comment? Has anyone seen a sound pack out there anywhere?

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Simmarket has sounds. 

 

http://secure.simmarket.com/arezone-mirage-pa46-350p-soundset-fsxfs2004.phtml

 

I have replaced the internal engine sounds on mine to the engine sounds for the Carenado 337 (for now).  It's Lycoming as well.  (I replaced rpm1, 2, 3, 4, start, startup, shutdown and failedstart...those filenames aren't exact...I'm not at the PC, but it's close enough.  I didn't replace the other sounds.)  I think the external sounds are great. The reason the sound is so odd is because (they tell me) it's what you'd hear in noise cancelling headphones...and that was the exact moment I thought that I'd never buy noise cancelling headphones.  There are some videos on youtube where you can hear the sound...good training too!

 

Gregg

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I have replaced the internal engine sounds on mine to the engine sounds for the Carenado 337 (for now). It's Lycoming as well.

 

Well yeah, but...  An IO360 wouldn't/shouldn't sound much like a TIO540 IRL, even accounting for what should be the quieter cockpit of the Malibu.

 

Due in large part to Gregg's enthusiasm, I've dragged the Mirage out from the back of the hangar for a few flights and have some further thoughts on why I don't like the default sounds on this plane.  If the goal was to emulate active noise cancelling headsets in the cockpit, (which seems to be the case, as all low frequency sound is missing) the fail is that the passive noise attenuation in such headsets would also eliminate wind noise which remains quite prominent.  The net result is something that's neither/nor and completely uninvolving.

 

Has anyone tried the Arezone soundset Gregg linked?  My limited experience with aftermarket soundsets has not been positive, but I'd love to find something that brings this otherwise very nice plane to life.  I don't care about outside sounds (which as Gregg notes seem OK to me), it's cockpit sound that matters.

 

Scott

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Well yeah, but... An IO360 wouldn't/shouldn't sound much like a TIO540 IRL, even accounting for what should be the quieter cockpit of the Malibu.

 

Well, the 337 sounds will due (til I find something better :) ).  I didn't replace the buzz sounds so something remains.  Still, I'll keep fishing around.  I spent some time this morning and afternoon testing the LINDA module.  I've submitted it for upload.   

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Since someone (Scott) opened the small can of worms about me being enthusiastic about this airplane, let me just say why I like it.

  • It looks good.  They didn't bump map it as far as I can see but I don't spend my time looking at wings or seats. 
  • The views are good.  The wings are far enough back where you can see the scenery below. 
  • It's a great plane to take you up over the mountains.
  • There is extensive information on the web about how to fly this airplane.  Power management, short field takeoff, approaches, landings.  Articles, videos, POHs...all for free. It's a good solid single-engine airplane to learn and practice complex aircraft procedures, temperature   management. 
  • It feels and handles great.  Power settings are pretty close. 
  • Equipment is pretty well modeled.  I wish they'd fix the bugs but you most everything you need when you're flying. (except the DH on the autopilot.  It should present a light and a two-tone audible alarm from what I read in the autopilot documentation.  Not required...but still.  Add it to the bug list.) 
  • Everything except the weather radar seems to be available to program to hardware. 

So, my three biggest issues are 1) the night lighting (which I half-way worked around) 2) the DH thing and 3) the Annunciator Panel not coming on till you turn on the Radio Master.  Everything else I'm pretty happy with.  All in all, it's the best all-around single engine complex that I have.

 

Gregg

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I strongly agree with everything Gregg has stated on this often overlooked aircraft. Moreover, using a real-world POH and checklist serve to enhance the immersion experience in addition to the online videos that Gregg mentioned.

 

Amazingly, there are zero additional repaints available as far as I am aware..

 

Les Parson.

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Is Carenado trying to emulate noise-cancelling headphones the reason the engine sounds in the interior of their newer aircraft are muffled

 

See my comments above, but bottom line is I think so.  And I don't like it.  They're great in the real thing, as standard noise attenuating headsets cancel the highs and mids fairly well, but don't cut out the deep drone prevalent in most GA cockpits.  They (edit: active noise cancelling headsets) help enormously in decreasing fatigue over time.  They're one of the best things that ever happened to piston planes.

 

In the sim, however, those same lows are part of what helps achieve some sense of being in a real plane.  In the real thing, even though your ears aren't hearing the low frequency stuff anymore, your body still feels them.  In the sim, take them away and we're left with nothing but the annoying buzz this sound set substitutes for cockpit engine noise.

 

And finally as noted in an earlier response, the net result is a bit artificial anyway, given the level of wind noise you hear in the Malibu.  Those noises would be all but eliminated by even good passive attenuating headsets as well.

 

 

 

I strongly agree with everything Gregg has stated on this often overlooked aircraft.

 

I agree that this is one of Carenado's better planes in some time, but it just didn't seem to capture much attention, hence the lack of repaints.  For some reason, however, I do note that I haven't flown it that much, and not at all lately until Gregg got me thinking about it again.  The v2 piston Duke is at least partly to blame for that, however. :-)

 

Scott

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I changed my files by copying the xrpm files to the rpm files (keeping a backup, of course).  Seems to be closer to the sounds in this vid.  It's more whiny than the vid but it's reasonable and doesn't sound bad.

 

 

I also compared the vid to the simmarket sounds and, truthfully, I think the xrpm files sound closer.

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I broke down last night and bought the Arezone soundset from simmarket.  10 euros, so not a huge chance to take.  So far, I'm pleased.  Some specifics from my flight last night:

 

Probably the biggest negative is the gyro sounds, which are a bit louder/whinier than the stock sounds, but that would be an easy change to make if I find it too annoying.  The flap sounds also seem a bit short to me, but that may well be correct.

 

In the neutral category, the startup sequence is just as abrupt as the stock set.  No worse, but not substantially better either.

 

On the plus side, gear sounds are much more distinct.  At idle speeds on the ramp, the prominent sound is prop noise as it should be.  It's distinct and quite nice.  As the throttle is advanced, more engine noise becomes evident.  And finally - the bass is back.  Full power and cruise sound is really quite similar to the stock sound set - indicating that the stock sounds are fundamentally correct - there's simply more lower frequency sound there, which really addresses my fundamental complaint about the sounds.

 

All in all, not spectacularly different, but almost everything is improved and I'm glad I took the (relatively small) chance on this purchase.

 

BTW, not knowing much of anything about how FSX sound files are structured, could Gregg (or anyone else) explain what the xrpm files are normally for as opposed to the rpm files?

 

Scott

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BTW, not knowing much of anything about how FSX sound files are structured, could Gregg (or anyone else) explain what the xrpm files are normally for as opposed to the rpm files?

 

Don't look at me...I just found something that works.  I don't spoze there's a fan or A/C sound in the sound set?  I think they're using the stock FSX fan sound so it would have to be replaced globally.  No loss there. 

 

If I get the itch, I might pick that soundset up. 

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BTW, not knowing much of anything about how FSX sound files are structured, could Gregg (or anyone else) explain what the xrpm files are normally for as opposed to the rpm files?

 

XRPM are the engine sounds that you hear in the spot plane view. RPM are the engine sounds that you hear in the cockpit views.

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I don't spoze there's a fan or A/C sound in the sound set?

 

I don't see anything obvious in the sound files or the .cfg, no.


 

 


XRPM are the engine sounds that you hear in the spot plane view. RPM are the engine sounds that you hear in the cockpit views.

 

Figured it was something like that.  Thanks.

 

Scott

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In the neutral category, the startup sequence is just as abrupt as the stock set. No worse, but not substantially better either.

 

Well apparently I've been doing something wrong, as last night I went to start the plane and got decently sequenced sounds from starter to rough startup to smooth idle.  In the past (including my first start with the Arezone sounds) I'd go directly from starter sounds to idle sounds.  Not sure what was different, but it was certainly better.

 

Nice to be back enjoying this plane (even more) again.

 

Scott

  • Upvote 1

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I know it's a small thing, but this startup sounds issue is starting to bug me.  I've been flying this a bit of late (for which Gregg is entirely to blame!) and enjoying it much more since picking up the Arezone soundset.  As noted earlier, I know little about FSX sound and how various sounds are triggered, but I'm hoping to gain some knowledge here.

 

The issue is that about 2 times out of 3, I go directly from starter sound to idle sound, while about 1 time out of three I get a transition to a good set of engine start sounds first - but even then those start sounds are often very brief going too quickly to idle sounds.  I've had one start (which generated my last post) where I think it all came together.

 

I've experimented with throttle position, and how fast and far I advance mixture when I start cranking and can't find any real correlation between what I'm doing and whether the sounds will sequence properly. 

 

Anybody have any clues?

 

Scott

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Have you tried reverting to the original starter sounds and keeping the rest of the new sounds?

 

EDIT:  It's probably just the start.wmv.  Actually, double click on start.wmv before you replace it.  Maybe there's something wrong with it.

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Figured it out last night.  The default soundset uses a single startup wav file which contains a brief starter cranking, then the sound of the engine starting.  It's simply awful, and wildly unrealistic.  The Arezone set uses two (as I think most piston planes do), with separate starter cranking sound and then the engine start sound.  The problem seems to be in how this sequences depending on how you start.

 

Proper procedure for this plane would be to set mixture to cutoff, crack the throttle, engage the starter and then advance mixture.  Here's where the problem lies.  If I don't move the mixture fairly rapidly to full rich it seems to short-circuit the startup sound sequence, going from the starter sound directly to idle.  If I advance it quickly, or even more reliably if I engage the starter with mixture full-rich, the sounds sequence properly.  I can live with this.

 

After using for a while now, I can definitely recommend this sound set to anyone who's unhappy with the default sounds.  I have put two sounds from the original back in play - the gyro and the fuel pump.  I like how the default gyro spools up at the start and the Arezone fuel pump sound seems way over the top to me.  Otherwise, it's terrific.

 

Scott

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Glad you got it figured out.  I wish the airplanes would simulate priming.

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Yeah, priming, cold and hot starts as A2A stuff does - all would be great.  As it is, I still go through the motions for things like priming when cold and not priming when warm even though they have no affect.

 

Scott

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Has anyone mentioned or noticed that this plane (as do most of Carenado's recent releases) fly's in an auto-coordinated fashion, which it should NOT be doing?

 

When I asked support about this they only stated that the dynamics are for entertainment only, but that obviously goes for all FSX planes as far as im concerned... IMO, if you're going to publicly release any plane (freeware or payware) that is supposed to need manual rudder inputs then that is the very basics of flight and should be part of the FDE...it should never be considered part of "fancy systems modelling".

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I bought this plane the other night, and it's OK. The sounds are hideous though, engine wise. I picked up the AreZone package, and its not much better really. The start up sound as mentioned, uses two files, and the second start up is tonally mis-matched with idle sounds. Winds are wrong, ground roll is wrong, fuel pump is wrong.. engine speed sound is too high at full throttle, etc... BUT, its way better then the stock. Keepers in the stock are Gyro, Flaps, wind, ground roll.

 

AreZone;

 

The idle sound is spot on if the prop wasn't so tonally incorrect. It (package) needs work, but I might be able to save it.

 

I know what ya'll are thinking already.. "Hawk, can you fix it for all of us and post it!?"

 

 

I'll play with it, and let ya know.

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For the AreZone sound set, Engine only. Just copy paste into your sound.cfg file, and save.  MAKE A FREAKING BACK UP FIRST!!

 

 

// Engine Sounds ________________________________________________________________

[sOUND_ENGINE]
number_of_engines=1
ENG1_COMBUSTION=COMBUSTION.1.00
ENG1_STARTER=starter
ENG1_COMBUSTION_START=combstart
ENG1_SHUTDOWN=shutdown
ENG1_PROP=PROP.1.00
ENG1_NON_COMBUSTION=NON_COMBUSTION.1.00

[COMBUSTION.1.00]
filename=PA461
flags=0
viewpoint=1
rparams=0.013245,0.851064,0.282561,1.021277
vparams=0.002139,51.818180,0.127273,53.939392,0.189845,5.319149,0.282561,4.255319,0.344371,1.063830,0.530000,0.000000,0.536898,0.000000,0.537433,0.000000
link=COMBUSTION.1.01

[COMBUSTION.1.01]
filename=PA462
flags=0
viewpoint=1
rparams=0.022075,0.574468,0.730684,0.893617
vparams=0.001604,3.636364,0.121390,13.030303,0.175936,60.303032,0.340642,70.303032,0.362567,5.151515,0.398396,0.000000,0.796257,0.000000,0.802674,0.303030
link=COMBUSTION.1.02

[COMBUSTION.1.02]
filename=PA463
flags=0
viewpoint=1
rparams=0.178808,0.617021,0.821192,0.851064
vparams=0.000000,0.000000,0.266000,0.000000,0.327807,9.242424,0.387701,71.969696,0.568984,80.454544,0.613687,15.957447,0.708609,1.063830,0.781818,0.303030
link=COMBUSTION.1.03

[COMBUSTION.1.03]
filename=PA464
flags=0
viewpoint=1
rparams=0.295806,0.680851,0.966887,0.851064
vparams=0.529801,1.063830,0.576159,9.574468,0.615894,79.787231,0.737307,77.659576,0.845475,77.659576,0.918322,77.659576,0.962472,78.723404,0.997792,78.723404
link=XCOMBUSTION.1.00

[XCOMBUSTION.1.00]
filename=xPA461
flags=0
viewpoint=2
rparams=0.011038,0.851064,0.375276,1.000000
vparams=0.000000,71.199997,0.134000,71.199997,0.170053,23.636364,0.263636,9.848485,0.407487,5.606061,0.429412,5.000000,0.622995,3.030303,0.994652,0.303030
link=XCOMBUSTION.1.01

[XCOMBUSTION.1.01]
filename=xPA462
flags=0
viewpoint=2
rparams=0.009091,0.638298,0.530481,0.914894
vparams=0.002208,1.063830,0.095722,14.090909,0.154525,23.404255,0.209626,69.242424,0.428342,75.606064,0.500535,11.212121,0.578610,0.303030,0.711765,0.151515
link=XCOMBUSTION.1.02

[XCOMBUSTION.1.02]
filename=xPA463
flags=0
viewpoint=2
rparams=0.467991,0.787234,0.983957,1.234043
vparams=0.181015,0.000000,0.416043,0.151515,0.443316,7.121212,0.494652,76.666664,0.715508,83.484848,0.766845,36.363636,0.803743,1.212121,0.957219,0.757576
link=XCOMBUSTION.1.03

[XCOMBUSTION.1.03]
filename=xPA464
flags=0
viewpoint=2
rparams=0.591979,0.787234,0.993378,1.148936
vparams=0.000000,0.000000,0.674332,0.303030,0.745455,3.484848,0.794000,84.800003,0.877000,100.000000,0.998000,100.000000,1.000000,100.000000,1.000000,100.000000

[starter]
filename=PA46starta
flags=0
viewpoint=1
link=xstarter

[xstarter]
filename=xA36starta
flags=0
viewpoint=2

[combstart]
filename=PA46startb
flags=0
viewpoint=1
link=xcombstart

[xcombstart]
filename=xPA46startb
flags=0
viewpoint=2

[shutdown]
filename=PA46shutdn
flags=0
viewpoint=1
link=xshutdown

[xshutdown]
filename=xPA46shutdn
flags=0
viewpoint=2

[PROP.1.00]
filename=PA46_propfeather
flags=2
viewpoint=1
rparams=0.002000,0.881000,0.993378,1.021277
vparams=0.000000,0.000000,0.162000,0.000000,0.315000,0.000000,0.572000,55.200001,0.813000,55.200001,0.922737,54.255318,0.962472,50.000000,0.993378,50.000000
link=PROP.1.01

[PROP.1.01]
filename=xPA46_prop1A
flags=2
viewpoint=2
rparams=0.017660,0.659574,0.982340,0.936170
vparams=0.000000,0.000000,0.137000,0.000000,0.449000,23.200001,0.623000,5.600000,0.998000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000
insideConeAngle=360
outsideConeAngle=360
conePitch=0.000000
coneHeading=0.000000
outsideConeVolume=9500
full_Scale_Distance=
link=PROP.1.02

[PROP.1.02]
filename=xPA46_prop2B
flags=4
viewpoint=2
rparams=0.000000,0.660000,0.450331,0.744681
vparams=0.000000,0.000000,0.100000,0.000000,0.516000,90.400002,0.782000,0.000000,0.840000,0.000000,0.873000,0.000000,0.905000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000
insideConeAngle=360
outsideConeAngle=360
conePitch=0.000000
coneHeading=0.000000
outsideConeVolume=10000
full_Scale_Distance=

[NON_COMBUSTION.1.00]
filename=PA46_falsestart
flags=0
viewpoint=1
rparams=0.000000,0.933000,0.444000,1.047000
vparams=0.000000,0.000000,0.118000,0.000000,0.171000,28.000000,0.523000,33.599998,0.641000,0.000000,0.738000,0.000000,0.741000,1.600000,0.750000,0.000000
link=NON_COMBUSTION.1.01

[NON_COMBUSTION.1.01]
filename=
flags=0
viewpoint=1
rparams=0.458000,1.035000,1.000000,1.189000
vparams=0.000000,0.000000,0.523000,0.000000,0.576000,34.400002,0.998000,44.799999,1.000000,44.000000,1.000000,44.000000,1.000000,44.000000,1.000000,44.000000
link=XNON_COMBUSTION.1.00

[XNON_COMBUSTION.1.00]
filename=xPA46_falsestart
flags=0
viewpoint=2
rparams=0.005000,0.715000,0.657000,1.047000
vparams=0.090000,0.000000,0.190000,7.200000,0.271000,23.200001,0.340000,49.599998,0.479000,56.799999,0.653000,0.000000,0.699000,0.000000,0.699000,0.000000
link=XNON_COMBUSTION.1.01

[XNON_COMBUSTION.1.01]
filename=xPA46_falsestart
flags=0
viewpoint=2
rparams=0.414000,1.023000,1.000000,1.176000
vparams=0.000000,0.000000,0.373000,0.000000,0.558000,60.799999,1.000000,79.199997,1.000000,79.199997,1.000000,79.199997,1.000000,79.199997,1.000000,79.199997

 

----

 

Using the original Carenado sounds, keep the wind, the gyro, and anything else like flaps and gear if you like. A great fuel pump is the Oovee one in the Beach Baron Set, I use it for all planes.

 

What Did I Do Here:

 

Toned down the RPM speed to more like the real thing, They have a wind whine in the RPM files themselves, so that hideous thing can't be changed. The Prop sound was also toned down, but its not a big part of the complete package... and thank the Gods for that, because its a freaking Dentist Drill.

 

I continue to be disappointed with Developers sounds. Most of the time they are hideously incorrect. Most 3P is not better, and only two studios I know are really any good. Oovee and TSS.. And it looks like both are out of the sound biz.
 

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