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Guest Michael_CFII_SEL

Level D 767 as good as the hype?

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We have all awaited the Level D 767 and this aircraft is very much being held up as the pinnacle of MSFS aircraft development.People in the forum are also claiming this aircraft as an example of how a bug free release should be and there are many claiming this fact.BUT!!! this is not what I am seeing or getting on my system.I take my hats off to the developers as there is potential for this aircraft to be an all time great as with the offerings from PMDG.Hand flown the flight model is excellent and really gives a sensation of flying. Its ground behaviour is stunning.I cannot select ILS frequencies from the VC or 2D panel being forced to select frequencies in the FMC.Take a flight into Dublin rw 28 freq 109.90 yes I can select 109.85 but the next figure comes up as 109.00 and the same goes for other ILS frequencies.There are annoying points like trying to change the display range and selected displays for plan vor ILS etc. You have to scroll to the VC centre console where the switch positions are obscured.Useability is important which means that all vital functions like autopilot operation should be easely at hand while keeping a firm eye on the main instruments at all times and so goes for other "busy" parts of an instrument approach or departure.I too have autopilot function problems and a strange sound problem for the warning voices where they come over as distant, silent and as if in a hollow metal can.I am getting very smooth frame rates but again an odd occurence which is bad stutters which happen every now and then and bring the sim to an almost standstill.If it wasnt for the way this aircraft has been depicted as an example to all I would simply take it as another release awaiting "patching".But until then I will keep flying the other PIC the ERJ 145 :-)Peter

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No Peter, it is not "bug free" at all.I think the mistake you are making on the ILS freq is the same I made, the ILS freq is not entered in the NAV1 radio on the autopilot control panel, it is infact entered on the IL radio on the throttle pop-up.There seem to be a number of AP issues, I myself am having trouble getting the VNAV to descend, works fine for climb and cruise, but just wont descend.That said, it is a very good piece of kit, but I do think there is a massive amount of hype around it.Dan.

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With all due respect, considering the LDS767 "a really excited user" tag displayed at the bottom of your post, are you likely to say different?.Dan.

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>I think the mistake you are making on the ILS freq is the same I made, the ILS freq is not entered in the NAV1 radio on the autopilot control panel, it is infact entered on the IL radio on the throttle pop-up.

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HiSee now that misunderstanding about the radio is exactly the sort of thing that boosts the support thread count to the moon.Most of the threads are like that and are a result of not RTFM.Troy

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Possibily yes, but that is what a support forum should be for, the manual contains 180 odd pages of "dry" information, which can be quite difficult to digest and find the exact piece of information you require.Also, in the event that there is no flight tutorial (really should be something like that included in every addon), the support forum is the only place to turn too.Dan.

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TroyI totally agree with you and that was a silly mistake. But some of the other issues I am getting are not "user" mistakes.Peter

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With regards to users with problems .... the 767 is still fairly flyable, is it not? especially compared to similar advanced add ons as they were when they were first released....This **is** the most advanced add on for flight sim ever and it'll be a very long time until something else tops it, (probably another Level D addon? Who knows) The whole 767 experience is astounding and when the few minor bugs are ironed out, it'll be perfect. It has everything down to the finest detail and the failures menu is just awesome! Ultimate realism!I really am amazed at the complexity of it all, and for only $39.95?! It's worth farrrr more than that. This aircraft is a must have addition to flight sim.It's still early days. Level D are working on the bugs that people have been posting. A few users including myself have the problem with sounds so a patch is in the works. All in all, the bugs seem to be fairly minor.

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Dan & PeteThings happen.I guess I was pointing out to the folks that are looking at the support forum thread count that the vast majority of threads deal with issues like that encountered by you which are nonissues if you had consulted the manual.I guess in the end I`m happy that I bought it and have few issues with it or their support and if given a choice I`d buy it again.Troy

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I still believe that something is making the difference between what some people are experiencing and the expected plane behavior.It seems that almost (or even all) the Level-D systems were programmed outside FS environment could it be FS-Level-D interaction? Just noticed, for instance, that FS Autopilot is still available, in my case not engaged but available, when using Level-D. Could some users have it on? Don't know. Does everyone start with Seattle Level-D situation and Seattle panel import? This should force FS and Level-D var init. Jos

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>Dan & Pete>>Things happen.>I guess I was pointing out to the folks that are looking at>the support forum thread count that the vast majority of>threads deal with issues like that encountered by you which>are nonissues if you had consulted the manual.>I guess in the end I`m happy that I bought it and have few>issues with it or their support and if given a choice I`d buy>it again.>>TroyTroyThe reason for my posting was the claim by many that the 767 was bug free.I very much take your point that people jump in with excitement without reading the manuals and end up with problems like the glowing one of mine which they put down to bugs.With any beta testing problems which were not noticed raise their heads when the product hits the mass market and mass computer systems so some degree of patching is the norm and "bug free" is wishful thinking even with the best releases.I have no doubts that the Level D 767 is going to be the aircraft which sets a standard for others to attempt to follow and the aircraft is a pretty impressive piece of kit as it stands.Peter

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I've been trying to evaluate the new 767 from Level D too, although I haven't as yet purchased it. I was dismayed that there is no public access to the Lvl D support forums - I usually like to haunt such places to gain insight to the problems and resolutions everyone is collectively experiencing. Being able to do this in the past has really influenced my purchasing decisions and I feel at a substantial loss not being able to gain this kind of insight now.It's unrealistic to expect that a complex add-on will not have at least a few bugs, no matter what the release 'hype' and developmental extent of beta testing. The problem I have in deciding whether or not to make this purchase is that I am in an information vacuum. I see posts on various forums concerning problems that other people are having and I can't ever know if others are having the same problem or if there is a resolution.So far, I've come across several posts where different individuals are having autopilot problems, including autoland crosswind correction problems. Yet I never know what the 'official' response from Level D is regarding these issues and whether or not it's a 'user' problem or a technical bug that will be addressed in a future patch.The technical support information blackout from Level D is just too frustrating for me personally, I don't know how others feel about it. I certainly do understand that developers must take steps to stem software piracy, and perhaps Level D has undertaken customer-only access to their support forums to address a situation where a user has an illegal copy of their product. However, I frankly believe that individuals who pirate software will do so irregardless of any copy protection/product support scenario enacted by a developer. Unfortunately, until an absolutely foolproof method of copy protection can be implemented (if ever), piracy is a simple fact of life in software distribution. Not even Microsoft, one of the most affluent and resource-rich companies in the world, can thrawt software piracy of it's main Windows platform product.Hopefully, honest customers will always ultimately prevail and offset the inevitable losses cause by piracy.Inn short, I think Level D's support loop at present is very detrimental to new sales and leaves potential customers hanging for sound pre-purchasing decision-making.

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If you want to try it out but you're unsure, can't you just buy it and test it for 30 days?I think there is a 30 day refund policy, but i'm not too sure.

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DianaGo buy it :-) You will not be dissapointed. As I have stated I am being hard on this one purely because it is claimed to be top of the pile in flight simulations and as such deserves extreme scrutiny ;-)It is an amazing release and I am sure the few bugs will be addressed as the feedback rolls in.At a $40 price tag its cheap at $60 it would be worth it.Peter

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Hi Peter and the restNow vc's are truly interactive and every switch is where it belongs (way at the back of the center console or on the far side of the overhead) you and everyone else should consider the trackir+vector expansion. It makes life a lot easier on the virtual flightdeck. I can't imagine panning right, then up to find the overhead anymore. Furthermore you can lean forward or any direction, like zoom in, to read the small gauges. all this happens as fast as you can turn your head and as fluid as your pc can handle. Just like level-d; get it! (don't take-off without it)Paul

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>Possibily yes, but that is what a support forum should be>for, the manual contains 180 odd pages of "dry" information,>which can be quite difficult to digest and find the exact>piece of information you require.>>Also, in the event that there is no flight tutorial (really>should be something like that included in every addon), the>support forum is the only place to turn too.>>Dan.I agree with you Dan. I myself don't read the manual (especially if it's too long) straight away. I only do that after I fly the plane with simple Autopilot features, like climbing, cruising and ILS landing. After that I get down reading the manual to get more out of it. So at first I also post simple questions for simple answers in these forums. That

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Just so you guys know...You can also Turn the NAV to Auto and input the ILS Freq and course in the Rad-Nav Page on the FMC, :)Makes life much easiserJason

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It really is good. I do wish that the 2-d panel bit-map was re-designed. It was great in 2000 (2001?), but is now looking a bit elderly, especially with other titles out there there with great new panels for less money. I wish that more developers would get more into the "in the captain's seat feel" with their panels, like the DF 727. Yes, the 767 is advanced, but so are some other releases...ATR, high end with a beautiful 2-d panel. I sure hope I don't get bashed for my opinion.

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>I cannot select ILS frequencies from the VC or 2D panel being forced to select frequencies in the FMC.Take a flight into Dublin rw 28 freq 109.90 yes I can select 109.85 but the next figure comes up as 109.00 and the same goes for other ILS frequencies.Talk about not reading the manual nor the FAQ's.... :(ILS frequencies are not dialed in the NAV1 receiver on th MCP but into the ILS receiver on the pedestal.

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>Possibily yes, but that is what a support forum should be for, the manual contains 180 odd pages of "dry" information, which can be quite difficult to digest and find the exact piece of information you require.That's why there are seperate support forums. One for technical and one for pilot issues. The problem is that many people that actually just do a pilot error assume it's a technical problem and ask in the wrong forum. And that is what keeps things complicated.

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Again, yes, that is a problem, but for the laymen amongst us, how do we tell if it is pilot error or a bug?.A flight tutorial would solve many of the pilot error issues we have seen over the last few days, hopefully one will be forthcoming in the near future?.I have no doubt that the LDS767 will be/is the new benchmark for airliners on FS.Dan.

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ditto ditto ditto madam - I just left a post in the LDS general forum respectfully requesting they change to read-only for non-users, even their FAQ would be of help to me. Like you, I wait for feedback before buying. In this case there is very little from those having legitimate issues - except in the support forum of course :) .regards,Mark3.2HT/1GIG/X700pro256

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