July 19, 201411 yr Can you always fly an IAP approach when using STARS? I'm not quite sure on this. Also, what does radar required mean on an IAP plate? Thanks.
July 19, 201411 yr Moderator Some STARs start a long way out. You can include those waypoints in your plan but at 40 miles out from your arrival airport you have a choice... 1) By default RC will give you vectors to fly for a RC controlled approach or 2) You can request an IAP and after choosing your runway you are free to fly the remainder of the STAR. RC will make contact around 7 miles out instructing you to contact TWR. Not sure about your second point. Maybe someone else can assist. Ray (Cheshire, England). System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke, Fulcrum Throttle Quadrant. Cheadle Hulme Weather website.
July 19, 201411 yr Author Some STARs start a long way out. You can include those waypoints in your plan but at 40 miles out from your arrival airport you have a choice... 1) By default RC will give you vectors to fly for a RC controlled approach or 2) You can request an IAP and after choosing your runway you are free to fly the remainder of the STAR. RC will make contact around 7 miles out instructing you to contact TWR. Not sure about your second point. Maybe someone else can assist. Yea, I understand that. But what I was asking is, can you always fly an IAP approach? Some STARS say expect radar vectors to final approach course, so how should those be flown? Can I still request an IAP and fly it, or do I have to do something else?
July 19, 201411 yr Author For example, take a look at the LENDY arrival into KJFK. Let's say I wanted to land on runway 13L. How would this be done if I requested an IAP?
July 19, 201411 yr Radar required means the aircraft must have a transponder so it can be seen and identified on ATC radar screens. Note that RC will tell you if you are not identified (if you have the incorrect transponder setting) once you are in contact with airborne ATC. RC starts its vectors about 35 nm out. That is about the range of many approach control zones. As Ray stated, any STAR waypoints up to that distance must be in the plan sent to RC. If you have a flight planner capable of including terminal procedures (it should be AIRAC updatable) the STAR will be included in the plan as waypoints. If STARs are runway specific you can just include the common waypoints to all runways. You can request a specific runway since until arrival you will not know which runway is in use but in doing so risk ai runway conflicts. I use a planner that is AIRAC updatable and an aircraft that has a terminal database in its FMC, also AIRAC updatable so I can sync the two databases. The plan with common waypoints for all runways is sent to RC. When approach assigns a runway I load it into the FMC which also gives me the final approach path of the runway extended center line for visual guidance for the merge. This is handy if using an IAP. See if this paper I wrote can help you: fsb tips and update.pdf
July 19, 201411 yr Author Radar required means the aircraft must have a transponder so it can be seen and identified on ATC radar screens. Note that RC will tell you if you are not identified (if you have the incorrect transponder setting) once you are in contact with airborne ATC. RC starts its vectors about 35 nm out. That is about the range of many approach control zones. As Ray stated, any STAR waypoints up to that distance must be in the plan sent to RC. If you have a flight planner capable of including terminal procedures (it should be AIRAC updatable) the STAR will be included in the plan as waypoints. If STARs are runway specific you can just include the common waypoints to all runways. You can request a specific runway since until arrival you will not know which runway is in use but in doing so risk ai runway conflicts. I use a planner that is AIRAC updatable and an aircraft that has a terminal database in its FMC, also AIRAC updatable so I can sync the two databases. The plan with common waypoints for all runways is sent to RC. When approach assigns a runway I load it into the FMC which also gives me the final approach path of the runway extended center line for visual guidance for the merge. This is handy if using an IAP. See if this paper I wrote can help you: What about STARS that are vectored? Would you still be able to fly an IAP approach from an IAF? But then sometimes I don't see IAFs on a chart. I'm not sure how to fly these STARS that are vectored. Will I be able to fly IAPS with the default GPS? Can I set approaches up in the FSX planner? Because some of the approaches in the default GPS are outdated.
July 19, 201411 yr Radar Required means you must have a transponder (as said above), and ATC has radar (if itwas non-operative then you couldn't use the approach). Note that Radar Required means that at some point in the approach you are requiring ATC to interact with you. I don't mean FSX ATC, but something that is intelligent enough to interact with the pilot an knows the approach. STARs and IAPs are two different things- a STAR doesn't always (but can) continue into an IAP. All a STAR does is gets you into the Terminal Area, it doesn't get you onto the ground. Bruce. ASEL, Instrument. KBJC, Colorado.
July 20, 201411 yr Author Radar Required means you must have a transponder (as said above), and ATC has radar (if itwas non-operative then you couldn't use the approach). Note that Radar Required means that at some point in the approach you are requiring ATC to interact with you. I don't mean FSX ATC, but something that is intelligent enough to interact with the pilot an knows the approach. STARs and IAPs are two different things- a STAR doesn't always (but can) continue into an IAP. All a STAR does is gets you into the Terminal Area, it doesn't get you onto the ground. Bruce. OK, I understand that. But I'm wondering how to fly some STARS that say expect vectors to final approach course. If I have to vector myself, I'm not sure how to do that. Thanks.
July 20, 201411 yr Vectoring to an IAP from a STAR is not something that the system is designed to do without ATC. On an IAP you don't always see the STAR a nd on the STAR you don't always see the IAF of the IAP. I vector myself in the Denver area where I live because I know where the IAP is in relationship to the STAR, as I fly the IAP often. ASEL, Instrument. KBJC, Colorado.
July 20, 201411 yr Author Vectoring to an IAP from a STAR is not something that the system is designed to do without ATC. On an IAP you don't always see the STAR a nd on the STAR you don't always see the IAF of the IAP. I vector myself in the Denver area where I live because I know where the IAP is in relationship to the STAR, as I fly the IAP often. But how could I vector myself? I'm not sure how to do that.
July 20, 201411 yr Author What I would like to know is how to be able to fly every STAR successfully with the default aircraft/GPS. A lot of STARS I see in the US don't take you to an IAF, so I'm wondering how to fly those with Radar Contact. If I have to vector myself in, I'm wondering how this would be done. Thanks.
July 20, 201411 yr Your choices are limited. What you're looking for simply isn't designed into RCv4.3. I know one of the AVSIM higher-ups once ask us us to implement precisely what you're asking for. It's on the list. At the time RCv4.3 was released, the "You'll be vectored off a STAR once in Apch airspace" was an uncommon practice but we're seeing it more and more. However, it will be impossible for RC to be aware of each and every plate in the world. Not going to happen. In fact the vector option's already there (did you know that?). At any point after having requested an IAP, you can request radar vectors but you have to have requested an IAP. I know what you're saying, fully understand but again, for now you're choices are limited. Doug
July 20, 201411 yr Author Your choices are limited. What you're looking for simply isn't designed into RCv4.3. I know one of the AVSIM higher-ups once ask us us to implement precisely what you're asking for. It's on the list. At the time RCv4.3 was released, the "You'll be vectored off a STAR once in Apch airspace" was an uncommon practice but we're seeing it more and more. However, it will be impossible for RC to be aware of each and every plate in the world. Not going to happen. In fact the vector option's already there (did you know that?). At any point after having requested an IAP, you can request radar vectors but you have to have requested an IAP. I know what you're saying, fully understand but again, for now you're choices are limited. Doug I was kind of beginning to think that. And yes, I knew the vector option was there. I had one problem with it though. It usually worked well for the downwind type of approaches, but on a straight in approach, they didn't vector me very well onto final. The airport this happened at was KOAK. I was flying the PXN3 arrival, and the chart said after SUNOL to expect vectors to final, so RC got me around BUSHY or so, and they flew me on a heading of 300 and then I flew right past the airport and they forgot about me. So what I decided to do is request an IAP and just guide myself in. I wish version 5 was still being developed since they probably could of improved this. Thanks.
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