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rwat

Saitek Cessna Pro Flight Yoke question?

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I just got the saitek cessna pro flight yoke today to go along with my cessna pedals, the yoke is great and with a little lubrication very smooth, quite a step up from my saitek av8r that barely worked at times lol. One issue I am having is with the roll axis, moving the roll axis about 75% moves the roll in the simulator itself 50% the remaining 25% moves the control in the simulator the remaining 50%, this isn't a bad thing with a joystick or the normal proflight yoke, but the cessna one has a 90 degree roll axis like a real cessna, is there an easy way to get a linear control movement like with the pitch and throttle axis? The roll axis lacks the responsiveness I would like and is unrealistic this way in comparison to a real c172 as I have flown one. I would like an easy fix for this if possible, I don't want to have to spend a lot of time programming it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Ryan Watson

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Do you use FSUIPC to assign you controls? It's the FSUIPC payware version you would need to have. If you have it you are almost certainly using it for Control assignments and if not you should be! I cannot remember the exact details but once you assign the axis in FSUIPC under the Axis Assignment tab,  you then select the Joystick Calibration tab. As part of that calibration you can set what is called Slope. I am not entirely sure but I think that this is a solution to your problem! Its not all the details but its that general direction. You might want to use the Calibration button in the FSX GUI under Controls first and see that the Yoke is properly calibrated first. That in itself might have the desired effect. Good luck:-)

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I only have the freeware version of FSUIPC, I have heard the payware version is great for setting up controllers and a lot of other stuff and I would consider getting it, also, calibrating using the fs2004 calibration software won't and didn't change anything because fs9 is programmed to be the way it is by default. The sst software has something that could help but it seems like it would be difficult to get right, I may try it though.

 

Thanks for the help (:

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Ryan, excuse the off topic question but what on the Cessna yoke did you lubricate?  Was it for the pitch?  and what did you use?

 

On topic, I would recommend FSUIPC, it's something I only now gave in and purchased as it also allows seperate control setups per aircraft, great for the A2A 172 and Majestic Dash 8 which both have they're own quirks.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHN we're down.

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Hi Ryan.

 

I also bought one recently and was surprised (and disappointed) to find mine has a similar problem.

 

In my case there's a huge mechanical dead-zone in the centre of travel caused by the the complexity of the linkage between the yoke itself and the potentiometer that actually conditions the signal for the roll axis.

 

I managed to improve things a little by sleeving a couple of the joints (wherever the pin is smaller than the hole) but have yet to deal with the main culprit - the huge difference in the size of the slot on either side of the metal shaft and the pins that fit into it on the first component of the linkage. Until I find a suitable liner for the slot, I'm stuck with 20 degrees of movement before the plane begins to respond.

 

I found it useful to fly in VC with a slight fish-eye so I could see the virtual yoke until I got used to the sloppiness and learnt how far to move my hands before getting a response but it still irritates the hell out of me. For that sort of price I expected tighter tolerances in the machining & moulding. Ah well, I suppose it's like driving someone else's car: horrible and very disconcerting at first but you eventually grow accustomed to it.

 

Your problem does seem much more like a calibration issue and as Dave and White Hawk suggested, there's a facility in the full version of FSUIPC that lets you change the shape of the response S-curve so it's either concentrated in the start of the hardware movement or at the end of travel according to your preference. It's disabled in the free version and is not possible at all with FS9's own controls.

 

I didn't particularly care about the warranty as I'm quite happy to modify or repair stuff for myself (throttle quadrant also needed adjustment...) but if you find there is a hardware fault send the yoke back to the retailer, describing exactly what the problem is. Saitek & MadCatz are well respected and you should get fair treatment.

 

Cheers,

Dave

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Hi Ryan.

 

I also bought one recently and was surprised (and disappointed) to find mine has a similar problem.

 

In my case there's a huge mechanical dead-zone in the centre of travel caused by the the complexity of the linkage between the yoke itself and the potentiometer that actually conditions the signal for the roll axis.

 

I managed to improve things a little by sleeving a couple of the joints (wherever the pin is smaller than the hole) but have yet to deal with the main culprit - the huge difference in the size of the slot on either side of the metal shaft and the pins that fit into it on the first component of the linkage. Until I find a suitable liner for the slot, I'm stuck with 20 degrees of movement before the plane begins to respond.

 

I found it useful to fly in VC with a slight fish-eye so I could see the virtual yoke until I got used to the sloppiness and learnt how far to move my hands before getting a response but it still irritates the hell out of me. For that sort of price I expected tighter tolerances in the machining & moulding. Ah well, I suppose it's like driving someone else's car: horrible and very disconcerting at first but you eventually grow accustomed to it.

 

Your problem does seem much more like a calibration issue and as Dave and White Hawk suggested, there's a facility in the full version of FSUIPC that lets you change the shape of the response S-curve so it's either concentrated in the start of the hardware movement or at the end of travel according to your preference. It's disabled in the free version and is not possible at all with FS9's own controls.

 

I didn't particularly care about the warranty as I'm quite happy to modify or repair stuff for myself (throttle quadrant also needed adjustment...) but if you find there is a hardware fault send the yoke back to the retailer, describing exactly what the problem is. Saitek & MadCatz are well respected and you should get fair treatment.

 

Cheers,

Dave

 

 

There is a dead-zone like you said, but I think the main problem is fs9's default "S-curve" settings, it seems that fs9 does what I explained in my original post by default with all controllers as it did the same with my previous joystick, but in the case of my joystick it was a good thing, I most likely will get the payware version of fsuipc, because I think it should fix the majority of the problem from what I've heard.

 

Thanks for the help (:

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Hey Ryan, again could you tell me what you lubricated on your yoke and what type of lubricant was it? Thanks.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHN we're down.

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Hey Ryan, again could you tell me what you lubricated on your yoke and what type of lubricant was it? Thanks.

I used Vaseline lol, I tried thinner lubricants but they wouldn't do much, I realized grease would probably do better, but Vaseline was all I had that was anything like grease, and it defiantly smoothed out the pitch axis, not as smooth as I would like, but it doesn't have a slightly sticky pitch axis like it did before, so I am happy with it, I will probably get a better lubricant eventually. I lubricated as much of the shaft as I could (without disassembling the yoke) by pulling the yoke back all they way and smearing Vaseline on the shaft with my finger, then I put some on a screw driver and put some inside the slot in the shaft that allows for control of the roll axis, this slot seemed to be the main problem area as far as causing the pitch axis to stick a little. That was all I did (:

Ok, another problem has arisen guys, I purchased the key for fsuipc 3.999 (most recent version for fs9), and have the free version of 3.999 already installed, when the installer prompted me for the key I put in all of the correct info and the key given, it seems to accept it (it didn't really confirm it worked or give me an error message) but then when I start the simulator and click on fsuipc in the modules menu, it is still the demo version.  I restarted my pc and tried stuff like manually removing the fsuipc dll before installing and it didn't change anything.

What am I missing? I hope I didn't spend 30 bucks for nothing. 

 

Thanks, 

 

Ryan

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Ok, another problem has arisen guys, I purchased the key for fsuipc 3.999 (most recent version for fs9), and have the free version of 3.999 already installed, when the installer prompted me for the key I put in all of the correct info and the key given, it seems to accept it (it didn't really confirm it worked or give me an error message) but then when I start the simulator and click on fsuipc in the modules menu, it is still the demo version.  I restarted my pc and tried stuff like manually removing the fsuipc dll before installing and it didn't change anything.

What am I missing? I hope I didn't spend 30 bucks for nothing. 

 

Thanks, 

 

Ryan

 

 

Hi Ryan.

 

You definitely didn't waste your money. If the installation has failed you can contact the author, Pete Dowson, for help in the FSUIPC support forum:

 

http://forum.simflight.com/forum/30-fsuipc-support-pete-dowson-modules/

 

 

As an aside, vaseline is ok as it doesn't conduct electricity, but you might try looking for a lube that won't soften and run when it gets warm, something like a bearing grease for bicycles.

 

 

Best regards,

Dave

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Hmmm interesting the lubrication. I've read you shouldn't lube the Saitek Cessna Yoke as its plastic. It would be interesting to see how its working in a few months. I've had mine over 2 years now and think it just broke itself in over time as its pretty smooth now, but I'm always open to trying things to improve my hardware. Let us know in a couple months how its working out for you.


Chris Strobel KSNA

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Something to note. The VC yoke that you see visually doesn't respond while the aircraft actually still does.

 

I don't have a 20% deadzone, but maybe a 5% one. Not quite used to it yet. I wouldn't mind trying lube as well, but I really don't want to use something I'm not supposed to in this case.


Nathan Allen Pinard

Virtual Pilot in Training

Composer/Sound Designer

www.nathanallenpinard.com

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 I've read you shouldn't lube the Saitek Cessna Yoke as its plastic.

 

Hi.

 

I'm pretty sure mine already had some on the joints when it left the factory. I find a lot of plastic mechanisms now have grease on them. As far as I can tell, most often it's lanolin-based or similarly solvent-free.

 

Centuries ago, when I was still at school, I read a book called The New Science of Strong Materials by a chap called J E Gordon. He suggested you should never lubricate metal clock mechanisms as the lube accumulates dust which will act as an abrasive. He also thought that the hammering of cogs against each other might harden the metal and actually prolong the clock's life.

 

Regards,

Dave

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Hmmm interesting the lubrication. I've read you shouldn't lube the Saitek Cessna Yoke as its plastic. It would be interesting to see how its working in a few months. I've had mine over 2 years now and think it just broke itself in over time as its pretty smooth now, but I'm always open to trying things to improve my hardware. Let us know in a couple months how its working out for you.

The Yoke actually came with a small amount of oil on the shaft out of the box, so the manufacturer actually lubricated it themselves, the problem is what they used wasn't very effective, I can't see what I did doing any harm.

Something to note. The VC yoke that you see visually doesn't respond while the aircraft actually still does.

 

I don't have a 20% deadzone, but maybe a 5% one. Not quite used to it yet. I wouldn't mind trying lube as well, but I really don't want to use something I'm not supposed to in this case.

I looked on the outside of the aircraft and the inside while moving the roll slightly, from the inside there appears to be a 5% dead zone according to the vc yoke, but from the outside, there appears to be almost no dead zone, becuse the ailerons seem to almost instantly respond, All aircraft default and add on will be different though, but this is what I noticed with my carenado c172 combined the realair c172 flight model. The issue I have is the lack of responsiveness in the roll axis, not getting it to respond.

Hi Ryan.

 

You definitely didn't waste your money. If the installation has failed you can contact the author, Pete Dowson, for help in the FSUIPC support forum:

 

http://forum.simflight.com/forum/30-fsuipc-support-pete-dowson-modules/

 

 

As an aside, vaseline is ok as it doesn't conduct electricity, but you might try looking for a lube that won't soften and run when it gets warm, something like a bearing grease for bicycles.

 

 

Best regards,

Dave

Okay, I will try the fsuipc fourm and see if that will help, but sim market said no refunds, so I am not going to get any money back if I can't get it working. Also, I was planning on getting a better grease eventually, but I don't see how the Vaseline to get to warm and soften or run off the shaft, we have air conditioning in our house.

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Okay guys, I fixed the fsuipc problem, the installation instructions recommended running fs9 in windows xp compatibility mode (I somehow missed this the first time I read through the instructions), anyways when I started the sim and opened fsuipc the full version of the fsuipc menu loaded up. :lol:  I wouldn't have expected windows 7 to cause any problems but at least it is working. I will have to leave for work soon so I won't be able to try its functions out now, but this afternoon I will see if it fixes the problem with my yoke, I will let you know how much it helped.

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Ryan

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I tok mine apart when it was brandnew, and all the grease on mine was on the gears, not the shaft itself. I'm willing to try lubing the shaft though if the engineering types think it would improve things. Im wondering what about using something like a teflon lube like triflo?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi.

 

I'm pretty sure mine already had some on the joints when it left the factory. I find a lot of plastic mechanisms now have grease on them. As far as I can tell, most often it's lanolin-based or similarly solvent-free.

 

Centuries ago, when I was still at school, I read a book called The New Science of Strong Materials by a chap called J E Gordon. He suggested you should never lubricate metal clock mechanisms as the lube accumulates dust which will act as an abrasive. He also thought that the hammering of cogs against each other might harden the metal and actually prolong the clock's life.

 

Regards,

Dave


Chris Strobel KSNA

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