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mcbellette

Pilatus PC12 (In development)

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Hi all, just wondering if anyone knows if the PC12 being developed by Carenado is the new NG model or the previous model?

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The latest photos show it with the "Biglets" that were a feature on the old PC-12/45. So you are looking at, possibly an early 2000s aircraft with the old avionics. Regardless however, the raked wingtip is a feature of the PC-12/47, and does not necessarily mean it is an NG variant. The early development shots they released showed the newer raked winglet, but showed no other features to tell between a -47 or 47E(NG). 

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The latest photos show it with the "Biglets" that were a feature on the old PC-12/45. So you are looking at, possibly an early 2000s aircraft with the old avionics. Regardless however, the raked wingtip is a feature of the PC-12/47, and does not necessarily mean it is an NG variant. The early development shots they released showed the newer raked winglet, but showed no other features to tell between a -47 or 47E(NG). 

You are right, thats wierd... the glass cockpit is probably to much of a challenge.

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I am just learning the RXP GNS 530 and am using direct to then hand-flying the landings. I have just joined Aviator90's Instrument Flying course so please excuse my ignorance about these things.

 

Coming from almost only flying WW2 stuff like Classics Hangar, A2A etc I was surprised to see that this is a hands off landing and taxi shown in the video below.

 

Is this something we will be able to do with the new Carenado Pc-12 using the 530 as a pop-up?

 

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I am just learning the RXP GNS 530 and am using direct to then hand-flying the landings. I have just joined Aviator90's Instrument Flying course so please excuse my ignorance about these things.

 

Coming from almost only flying WW2 stuff like Classics Hangar, A2A etc I was surprised to see that this is a hands off landing and taxi shown in the video below.

 

Is this something we will be able to do with the new Carenado Pc-12 using the 530 as a pop-up?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "hands off landing and taxi", but the pilot was clearly holding the yoke with his left hand during the landing in the above video.   There is no autolanding capability in the PC12.

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I watched it properly and yes his hand is on the yoke, sorry please disregard post.

 

I was surprised he has 4 mfd/pfd displays rather than 3.

 

Shouldn't do 3 things at once and should sometimes turn off my iphone :)

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I watched it properly and yes his hand is on the yoke, sorry please disregard post.

 

I was surprised he has 4 mfd/pfd displays rather than 3.

 

Shouldn't do 3 things at once and should sometimes turn off my iphone :)

 

Ha ha, there certainly were parts at the end of the video where his head (and the camera angle) did block sight of his hand on the yoke. :smile:        Yes, I believe the 4 screens come with the NG model.

 

Have a good weekend.

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Seen the latest screenshots of the PC-12 in development and I have to say I am disappointed it isn't the NG...

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Seen the latest screenshots of the PC-12 in development and I have to say I am disappointed it isn't the NG...

Totally agree, at least a /47 (non NG). That would have kept the option for 3rd party GPS integration, but allowed for a more modern aircraft. The /45 is a dog by all accounts. Underpowered, bad climb performance and a lower MTOW that later models. 

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Totally agree, at least a /47 (non NG). That would have kept the option for 3rd party GPS integration, but allowed for a more modern aircraft. The /45 is a dog by all accounts. Underpowered, bad climb performance and a lower MTOW that later models.

 

Welllll, at least there's a small hope that it might be close to functional.  I see so many things in it that worry me.

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I flew with a real world PC12 crew for a week, back in 2009 in Idaho, while on a student exchange trip.

 

I was too young to know a lot about the operation of the aircraft back then, but one thing that sticks like glue in my memory of perhaps 50 take off and landings that week is :-

 

  1. Take-off:  Power Lever full forward, FADEC gives 44.4 on the torque gauge. You can keep this full power on for 5 minutes, then you must reduce to :-
  2. 36 on the torque meter for the rest of the climb.  (Eventually you will then be governed by temps, at a max of 720 I believe.

 

So for me, the bit that Carenado have to get right on this aircraft, is the power delivery and torque settings.   It's an aircraft designed to be simple to operate (1 pilot certification).     If Carenado's model over-torques and goes in to the 'red' when the power lever is pushed full forward, (or gives a torque any higher than 44.4), it will sadly mean a case of just another set of Carenado "flying textures".

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Such as what, Gregg?

 

All the things that haven't worked in recent past releases as well as new avionics they haven't done before.  Some of it is rather serious for an airplane like this.  Worried that things like autopilot IAS won't work, that the GNS530 interlock will be screwed up (like it is on the Malibu), that the Avidyne (looks like an Avidyne) will be best left untouched...nice to look at...just don't use it.  Worried that the DH alert won't work.

 

In terms of just simple completeness, there's the usual things...

 

That version of their transponder, you can't even switch to standby, the working of their pressurization knobs are always flaky, most times you can't do an annunciator test unless you turn avionics on. Lately their sounds have been awful, sending people to third parties to get sounds.  Their engine temperatures never go to the red, doesn't matter what you do to them.  They have icing switches but will they work?...even put a load on amps?  (They never put icing effects on any of their planes...why not? since they are brilliant at graphics).

 

On the positive side, it's nice to see an RMI (if it works). 

 

As a company, they are *trying* to advance like other companies, but their systems are dragging them backward.  They still can't do more than a basic six-pack airplane well while A2A and Milviz are moving forward, setting the bar higher and higher.  I have no doubt that it will look like a PC12 and fly brilliantly.  I have my doubts if it will function like one at all.  As with all Carenado systems aircraft, I'll wait to read the complaints.

 

Gregg

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I flew with a real world PC12 crew for a week, back in 2009 in Idaho, while on a student exchange trip.

 

I was too young to know a lot about the operation of the aircraft back then, but one thing that sticks like glue in my memory of perhaps 50 take off and landings that week is :-

 

  1. Take-off:  Power Lever full forward, FADEC gives 44.4 on the torque gauge. You can keep this full power on for 5 minutes, then you must reduce to :-
  2. 36 on the torque meter for the rest of the climb.  (Eventually you will then be governed by temps, at a max of 720 I believe.

 

So for me, the bit that Carenado have to get right on this aircraft, is the power delivery and torque settings.   It's an aircraft designed to be simple to operate (1 pilot certification).     If Carenado's model over-torques and goes in to the 'red' when the power lever is pushed full forward, (or gives a torque any higher than 44.4), it will sadly mean a case of just another set of Carenado "flying textures".

My understanding is that only the PC-12/47E (NG) has a FADEC system. Meaning that it would be unlikely for the Carenado aircraft to have this featured. 

 

The King Air range is also sing pilot certified with no FADEC. Not that hard to manage really, just don't push everything full forward and be cautious with the use of engine anti-ice with high cruise torque settings. 

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I flew with a real world PC12 crew for a week, back in 2009 in Idaho, while on a student exchange trip.

 

I was too young to know a lot about the operation of the aircraft back then, but one thing that sticks like glue in my memory of perhaps 50 take off and landings that week is :-

 

  1. Take-off:  Power Lever full forward, FADEC gives 44.4 on the torque gauge. You can keep this full power on for 5 minutes, then you must reduce to :-
  2. 36 on the torque meter for the rest of the climb.  (Eventually you will then be governed by temps, at a max of 720 I believe.

 

 

Max ITT is 760° on non NG PC12 ;)

 

Most operators are self restricting to 720° for longer engine life ;)

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My understanding is that only the PC-12/47E (NG) has a FADEC system. 

 

No sorry, that's definitely not right.  Standard / Non-NG PC-12s have FADEC and will limit take-off torque to 44.4lb/in2.

 

This relates to the max rated power off 900kW for take-off / 5 mins of climb, and then the max rating of 640kW for the remainder of flight (which equates to the 36ib/in2 torque setting, that is set for climb).

 

If anyone is interesting in a great video of the PC-12 in operation, with the Boise based operator that I sat in with for a week, check out "Flight Video Productions PC-12" video (download) available from the usual places (Simmarket etc).  Here's a screenie from the film, where the climb power of 36lb has just been set after take off:-

 

565612.jpg

 

Max ITT is 760° on non NG PC12 ;)

 

Most operators are self restricting to 720° for longer engine life ;)

 

Yip.

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You are correct in that even the early PC-12s will limit takeoff torque. However this is achieved through a torque limiter ( through the use of a governor for memory ). This is similar to a turbo normalized piston with a variable wastegate preventing the engine from overboosting.

 

FADEC is a profoundly difernt system to a governor / limiter. Think of say the C510 Mustang. The power leavers are simply a computer input devices, the power levers talk to a computer, the computer then controls the engine(s)

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You are correct in that even the early PC-12s will limit takeoff torque. However this is achieved through a torque limiter ( through the use of a governor for memory ). This is similar to a turbo normalized piston with a variable wastegate preventing the engine from overboosting.

 

FADEC is a profoundly difernt system to a governor / limiter. Think of say the C510 Mustang. The power leavers are simply a computer input devices, the power levers talk to a computer, the computer then controls the engine(s)

 

I'll completely take your word on that.    However, the real point for this discussion is as to whether the Carenado will correctly model the '44' on the torque gauge when the power lever is pushed forward on take-off, and the correct flight dynamics numbers when torque is set to '36'  (or limited by 760 ITT) for Climb.      

 

Or whether when we push the Power Levers forward we'll we see 60lbs of torque and red flashing gauges!   :smile:   (as I fear). 

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I, too, will be watching the reviews carefully. Please share of you have purchased it already!

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Seems OK to me, but I don't have any experience on the real type. It feels quite nice, FPS takes a small hit but not bad overall. It has some cool sounds for alerts, something different from what you're used to in Boeings and Airbuses.

 

I'm not going to give any recommendation as I don't sim nearly enough to give this a proper review, but at first impression it seems like a solid add-on from Carenado. I use it in P3D 2.3 by the way.

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