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jvile

What's with the ILS Transitions?

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Hey all :-wave So, does anyone know the details of ATC's ability to authroize ILS approach clearance's via a certain transition fix?? I've used the option a couple of times, and I just love how you can just fly the approach as published with the transition fix without intervention from ATC. This could be a great feature if it was just more consistant and at every airport. Basically, does anyone know how this feature works? Such as how to edit these procedures and maybe add-on to them? Are they listed within the AFCAD file? That would explain the inconsitancies between the airports I fly into. If we could find a way to screw with these, allowing the ability to fly STAR's as published, I beilieve that would be a major improvement!

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Oh I'm fully aware of where it is and it's fuctionality within the sim. I was just wondering if there was a way to harness this feature, and edit it to make all the transitions that exist in real life exist on the sim.Anyone?

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I believe it's only the transitions that are on the approach chart itself that are accessible. And keep in mind that flight sims data is about 4 years or more out of phase with the current chart cycle, so while some approaches may not have been changed since then, others have been updated. I know several approaches into Pasco are slightly different than what's in FS2004 due to changes between then and now.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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I probably can answer this because for over a year now I have been updating as many airports as time allows to add/change the Approach Transistions in FS9. This is done by adding the appropriate data into XML files and then compiling to bgl.My initial goal was to open more runways that where non-parallel so both the AI Traffic and User Aircraft had more of a choice for requesting a departure or landing runway.Today many AFCAD's are designed using my crosswind runway technique. This lead to rewritting XML code so ATC would call the right runway number if a airport changed runway names (KMCO, KMIA, KDEN, KIAH, EHAM etc.)since the release of FS9.Further studies allowed me to start writting additional ILS approach data for these new or renamed runways so ATC would vector both the AI Traffic and user aircraft to the IAF for a default vector to final.I expanded these type approaches to include all the latest transistions (as per current Jeppesen Charts)which in the USA are called Initial Approach Procedures or IAP. The IAP is what FS9 ATC data code is written on and not a USA term called STAR. However in a lot of other countries the term STAR is used in place of the USA term IAP.Example is in the Country of Austria all the IAP's are actually called STAR's and this could be because of the distance between borders. I have a file available that has every single STAR written for LOWI for both runway 8 and 26 for any user aircrafts GPS receiver.If you interact with FS9's ATC (when flying) then any IAP/STAR must start within 60 to 80 miles of the Airport. If you write a USA STAR for KATL such as the MACEY TWO Arrival, that STAR starts in Virginia over 350NM away so the best that FS9 can understand is an IAP that starts at the Macey intersection 30 miles away.In Austria most intersection waypoints (for STAR App) are within 60 to 80 miles of LOWI so when I wrote those transistions (Austria STAR) you can select the approach through the ATC window. When the controller clears you direct to BRENO, or TULSI, or ALGOI you won't have to do a 180 degree turn and back track because those waypoints are all within 60 to 80 miles of LOWI. All of these transistions are also written so if you "LOAD" and "ACTIVATE" the GPS receiver the plane will fly them including the holding patterns if you also lock the VOR to the GPS Switch.Several months ago I also introduced the curved AI Traffic/User aircraft approach. This type approach forces ATC to vector the AI Planes and the User Aircraft to stay at a higher altitude or change headings to avoid high terrain when landing at certain airports.If you look at my PHNL, KLAS, LOWI bgl files and cooresponding AFCAD's you will see all runways open simutanously (PHNL, KLAS). New ILS (KLAS) that ATC understands when visibilty is below 3 miles. Curved approaches to avoid mountains (PHNL, KLAS, LOWI) so ATC vectors to final properly. Contrary to popular belief the ATC approach system in FS9 is not a hard code as most people think it is. MSN has given us some powerful tools (sdk's) that allow 3rd party people like myself to control aircraft/airport approaches.SID/DP's is another post of what can and cannot be done in FS9 contrary to belief.

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Ah. In the US STAR stands for Standard Terminal Arrival Route and is a collector to bring aircraft into the area and reduce ATC work load. From there you go to an Instrument Approach Proceedure.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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Thanks John for making the IAP a clear statement. I was trying to use the Initial Approach wording (segment between the initial approach fix and the intermediate fix) rather then using initial approach procedure wording which like you say if using charts is an Instrument Approach Procedure (IAP) from the STAR. I should have left the letters IAP completely out of my statement (less confusing). FS9 does not understand the full entry point of a transition from enroute, to the STAR (if it can be written for some Country's based on distance) and then to the Instrument Approach Procedure (IAP) when in contact with ATC. FS9 does try and make an effort for this transition put when ATC center (enroute) hands us off to Approach we are not at that point in time on an IAP but rather given headings for an Initial Approach to vectors for final. The heading for the vectors are always toward the default IAF based on active runway and is considered to be the standard initial approach procedure from the controller. We then ask ATC to "standby" so we can select a different transition and then request that particular IAP Transition from the Charts but we still are given vectors to an intermediate waypoint fix and not to the entry point of the IAP at some airports. If I write what Austria calls a STAR for ALGOI THREE ALFA (ALGOI 3A) (ALGO3A) the entry point is at the KPT VOR outbound on a heading of 162 degrees DME19 to ALGOI Waypoint. The problem that FS9 has is ATC should say cleared direct to ALGOI (once selected) and not to KPT which is the Initial Approach phase of the flight.All of this also has to corrdinate between the IAP/GPS receiver so the User Airplane has not passed the intermediate waypoint (when approach gives the first vector) and then does a 180 degree turn back to KPT or ALGOI based on the IF element statement which ATC reads the voice (USEnglish gvp) file from. Sorry if I mislead anyone.

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WowWowThanks for the quite detailed response! Friggin awesome. What AFCAD files have you made? Do any of them IAP like you were describing? I want some...whatever you got my man!

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Do an advance search here on avsim using Authors name Jim Vile. It depends on my goals at the time I write these bgl files to how much I put into them. The Innsbruck LOWI is my lastest and as all the Austria STAR's and published missed approach (interfaced to a GPS)plus AI Traffic no longer fly through mountains for landing both on runway 8 and 26.There are some airports I need to go back and update so all the Transitions will exsist. In the earlier files my goal was just to get ATC to say the right runways (new) at airports like KMIA, KMCO, KDEN, KIAH and added the ILS approach vectors to final only. Airports like KCLE, EHAM, KBUF, LEBL, EHFK, have Transitions written for the new runways added. KLAS, PHNL, along with others have all runways operating simutanoues plus curved approaches for the AI Traffic simular to my Innsbruck. hope this helps

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