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Tight Git

Basic Tutorial Problem.

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Sorry if this has been asked before, but I've just bought the MD11 and I'm having a problem with the EGLL-LSZH Tutorial.

 

I've run through this twice and each time I've been stuck at 37,000 ft, so have yet to get as far as landing!

 

On both occasions the aircraft has reached the TOD but doesn't descend.

 

Not sure if it's relevant, but having reached 37,000 ft, the FMC stays in Climb rather than Cruise.

 

Any ideas, please?

 

(I bet I've overlooked something daft!)

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Not sure if it's relevant, but having reached 37,000 ft, the FMC stays in Climb rather than Cruise.
Do you recall if the PFD said  CLB THRUST 37000 in magenta color? It should say HOLD 37000 in magenta. Both the color and wording are both important.

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A few miles prior to TOD you need to adjust the altimeter value from 37.000 to e.g. 4000 WITHOUT PUSHING OR PULLING THE WHITE KNOB. You will see that the aircraft will descend automatically when reaching TOD.

 

If you do push or pull the altimeter setting knob just hit PROF again.

 

Does this help?

Best regards

Jan Kleijn

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A few miles prior to TOD you need to adjust the altimeter value from 37.000 to e.g. 4000

Unless you are in PROF mode resetting the altitude from 37000 to 4000 is not going to cause the plane to descend at TOD. You could descend manually using V/S of say 2000 ft per minute but that defeats the purpose of the tutorial.

 

At cruise the PFD should show .826 THRUST NAV1 and HOLD 37000 in Magenta. Just below NAV1 you will see AP1 or AP2 in blue. If you see anything in white the plane is not going to descend at TOD. You are going to need to do the descent yourself using V/S. Something has happened earlier either on the ground or in the air to knock the plane out of profile. The FMS may have been setup incorrectly. Or you could have rotated too steeply after liftoff or retracted the flaps or slats too early. This will cause a low airspeed and the plane will switch from the FMS commanded speed to LOW SPEED PROTECTION mode to keep you airborne. Once this happens you are out of profile. Once you have reach a safe speed you can press the FMS button and the PROF button to return to profile.

 

I don't believe pressing PROF at FL370 is going to make any difference. I am not 100% certain, so try it if you want.

 

I assume you are incorrectly typing altimeter for altitude. The altimeter has nothing to do with this.

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Unless you are in PROF mode resetting the altitude from 37000 to 4000 is not going to cause the plane to descend at TOD. You could descend manually using V/S of say 2000 ft per minute but that defeats the purpose of the tutorial.

 

He was saying that, much like a Boeing, you need to roll the altitude value down to 4000 prior to the top of descent to allow it to descend when reaching the T/D - not force it to, as you've assumed.

 

That's how I read it anyway.

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That is exactly what I meant Kyle. Once the altitude value has changed a few miles before TOD you will notice an alert message blinking/flashing in the top right corner of the PFD telling you that the plane is about to reduce thrust and descend.

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Many thanks for your responses.

 

I think I've found the problem and it's partly my finger trouble!

 

As you know if you're familiar with the tutorial, I'm supposed to take off from 27L and fly the DVR4G SID.

 

Unfortunately the FMC isn't showing a DOV4G SID!

 

The only reason I can think of for this is that I update the NAV DATA each month and the latest (PMDG_1411) doesn't include that SID.

 

(Perhaps someone can confirm this, please?  Has that SID been dis-continued?)

 

Anyway, I decided to do the flight plan manually to include Detling, as there is a DET SID available, but accidentally set the cruise level at 37,500 (doh!).

 

But I still entered 37,000 on the FCP as per the tutorial so, when I levelled off at FL370, the system didn't enter cruise mode as I was 500 ft too low.

 

As I said, all caused by my stupidity!

 

Oh well, live and learn...

 

Thanks again.

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(Perhaps someone can confirm this, please?  Has that SID been dis-continued?)

 

Highly likely - the tutorial was written in...2009 ish?

 

Nav data changes every 56 days.  That doesn't mean that all SIDs and STARs are changed every 56 days, but it does mean that there's potential for that SID or STAR to disappear several times each year, and it's been 5 years.

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I thought it changed after 28 days Kyle.


Sorry forgot to sign

 

Gary Stallard

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As you know if you're familiar with the tutorial, I'm supposed to take off from 27L and fly the DVR4G SID.
Even though the current Navigraph charts for EGLL show DVR4G/F for 27L or 27R, it is no longer in their FMS Data as of cycle 1411. The charts are updated every three months and the FMS every 28 days. Anyway, DVR4G is no longer a valid SID for 27L.

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Thanks for the confirmation; at least it wasn't me being daft this time.

 

Having now got as far as the approach, I also find there's no longer a BLM1G STAR into Zurich either !

 

As they say, these things are sent to try us...

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I thought it changed after 28 days Kyle.

 

You're right.  That time period is always jacked for me because, when I was an airport planner, we had to get our updates in prior to a 56-day cutoff.  The United States uses a double AIRAC cycle so that the data can be released well in advance (28 days lead time on the actual effective date) to give people time to recognize and adjust to any changes prior to actual implementation.  So, 56 has been burned into my brain.

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I also find there's no longer a BLM1G STAR into Zurich either !
The current Navigraph charts show BLM2G as an available STAR. Don't know if that's in the 1411 FMS Data or not. 

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Yes, that's the one I've just used to land safely for the first time at Zurich.

 

(Round of applause, please!  :BigGrin:)

 

Thanks again to all who've assisted me.

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