These two error messages did not crash my fsx but i couldn't access my menu without getting two error messages..

 

First message -

 

An unsupported operation was attempted

 

Second message after click OK -

 

An invalid argument was encountered

 

 

Has anyone got any clue what this is pointing too?

It's just an error message to tell you that you clicked on the wrong button or hit a wrong key on your keyboard or did something else which was abnormal. Most of these are fixed by simply rebooting your computer. If it occurred with an application and it keeps occurring with the same application, it probably means the application is corrupted. There are several suggestions to fix this problem by search Google with the key words "an unsupported operation was attempted". It happens frequently to a lot of applications, not FSX related.

 

Best regards,

Thanks jim its not came back!

 

All the best

One other thing jim i got a NTDLL.DLL when exiting FSX? Now what can cause this crash when exiting fsx after many hours of flying? I'm glad its not during game play.

 

Also i have set my page file to 3072 is this recommended

 

 

Also i have set my page file to 3072 is this recommended

 

Hi Vernon,

 

Could be the cause but everything I know about FSX crashes/freezes has been put in the AVSIM CTD Guide which was very recently updated with even more knowledge I have gained.  I really have no additions to those recommendations as I did a lot of research for each type of crash or freeze and put my "thoughts" and research there.  Wrong or right, they are my complete and total thoughts (you might say, "if I download the AVSIM CTD Guide, I will have a walking encyclopedia for all FSX/FS9/P3D crashes from Jim Young").  Uh, you might say that.... :rolleyes:

 

In any case, here's what the AVSIM CTD Guide suggests for the NTDLL.dll:

 

NTDLL.dll – Several possibilities as follows:

• Quote from Microsoft Techs – “Heap metadata can become corrupted and it has been identified by Microsoft as one of the most common causes of application failures.  When an application crash shows the faulting module as ntdll.dll along with the Memory Access Violation (0xc0000005), then Windows places the application on a watch list and, if the application crashes at least four times or more in an hour, the fault tolerant heap service will configure the application to use the fault tolerant heap service in the future” (Source - Chapter 10, Memory Management, Windows Internals, Part 2: Covering Windows Server 2008 R2 and Windows 7 by Mark E. Russinovich, David A Solomon, and Alex Ionescu).  The service is part of the Security Center service so you need to make sure this service is turned on.  If the ntdll.dll is placed on the watch list, this information will be shown in the Event Viewer (Admin Events).  See also Increase Heap Limitation in the Actions to Take to Prevent Crashes section of this guide.
• MyTrafficX version 5.4c is installed. It is believed to be caused by an AI scheduling programming error. Go back to the 5.4b version or make sure no external AI program schedule is activated (i.e., the 2012 or 2013 Schedules on the developers website).  The default schedule appears to be okay for most. Check the developers support forums for updated information and possible bug fixes.
• System overheats or you have wrong timings/voltages set for your installed RAM or CPU voltage. You might be able to fix by returning your BIOS to Optimized Defaults or lowering your overclock by one point from say, 4.4GHz to 4.3GHz.
• Remove the UIAutomationcore.dll from the main FSX folder, if installed.
• Check your dll.xml for duplicate entries or any corruption.  Some have fixed the NTDLL.dll CTD by removing duplicate entries and/or old software entries where the software is no longer on your system.
• Disable User Access Controls (UAC) (see the section above for more information).
• Update hardware drivers for your computer (especially on new computer systems) (see Driver Update information in this guide).

Okay, so you need to open up the guide to look at the other sections I referenced above but you get the idea.  I remember duplicating this error 100% of the time when I changed the voltages in my BIOS for my overclock or raised my overclock from 4.2GHz to 4.3GHz.

 

Best regards,

Jim, just to add to what you said about the ntdll crash, (with a memory access violation as the root cause). I have found this particular error will be thrown on my system if I have completed a long flight in a complex add-on. It will occur if I try to change the aircraft at my destination back to a default aircraft without first exiting and then re-starting FSX.

 

I assume that the more complex the add-on, the more likely it will be that the heap memory may have become "dirty" or fragmented - in which case trying to change aircraft after FSX has been running for many hours, is probably asking for trouble.

 

I've also seen this error when running FSX with ASN. Normally, when shutting down FSX, I will first close any associated simconnect-enabled add-ons like the ASN weather generator, Aivlasoft EFB server etc.

 

I found, using sysinternals process explorer, that if you close ASN after a long flight, the user interface disappears immediately, but the asn-bstp.dll will still show as an active process running under FSX.exe for up to 30 to 45 seconds, before it finally closes completely. I have found that trying to close FSX while the ASN DLL still shows as active, while result in a "FSX has stopped working" crash-on-exit, with ntdll shown as the cause of the crash in the system error log. If I wait until I see the ASN DLL close before exiting FSX, then it exits cleanly.

Thanks jim! Its just when i exit fsx thats got me thinking, because when i got those errors i mentioned above on this thread and when i exit fsx to restart it, thats when i got the NTDLL.DLL crash when exiting the game.

 

Now, it can't be MTX or my voltages as i've never had this crash during game play....

Thanks jim! Its just when i exit fsx thats got me thinking, because when i got those errors i mentioned above on this thread and when i exit fsx to restart it, thats when i got the NTDLL.DLL crash when exiting the game.

 

Now, it can't be MTX or my voltages as i've never had this crash during game play....

Probably a variety of causes for an ntdll crash, but on my system it has always been associated with a crash-on-exit, and more likely to happen at the end of long flights with highly complex aircraft and associated add-ons. I found the ASN problem by accident using Process Explorer, and that may not affect all users.

 

What I do now is to shutdown any external programs I may have using in conjunction with FSX, like the EFB, VPilot, ASN, etc, and then just walk away for a good five minutes before trying to exit FSX itself. Have not had any crash-on-exit problems since doing that.

 

 

Now, it can't be MTX or my voltages as i've never had this crash during game play....

 

This is when I got my crashes.  When shutting down FSX.  For MyTrafficX too.  It can all occur during a flight and during the shutdown of your system as FSX does not always shutdown properly.  It's an easy investigation to find the culprit.  Disable all the modules in the dll.xml that you do not want to load or won't need during a flight session.  Run again and see if this fixes the problem.  If you get the ntdll.cll error again, then move your scenery.cfg to a temporary directory.  It will be rebuilt to the default when you restart FSX.  See if this fixes the problem (most likely it will as scenery uses a lot of memory resources if not configured correctly, such as REX4).  But, there is no one fix that works in every situation for everyone who is flying with FSX.  It would be a perfect society if that would occur.  But, you can investigate and maybe find the exact cause for the crash on YOUR system.  If it is REX or ASN or ORBX or whatever you have installed, you can go to the developer and tell him his product caused a crash and this is how you found out.  I have a lot written in the AVSIM CTD Guide regarding the NTDLL.dll as I also refer readers to an earlier discussions about BEX crashes, CTD's After Long Flights, D3D9.dll crashes, StackHash crashes, and Running the Process Monitor for just FSX and FSX addons being logged.

 

 

 

I have found that trying to close FSX while the ASN DLL still shows as active, while result in a "FSX has stopped working" crash-on-exit, with ntdll shown as the cause of the crash in the system error log. If I wait until I see the ASN DLL close before exiting FSX, then it exits cleanly.

 

Hi Jim,

 

Thanks for your valuable input.  I have not seen this issue as I'll close FSX first, then at the bottom of ASN it will show ASN is still running and then close down a few seconds later, then I will close it.  Sometimes I close ASN while FSX is still running and I get the error message that the simulator is still running, are you sure?  I say okay or yes and it closes down okay.  I also run ProATC-X and that's running too after I shutdown FSX until I wait a few seconds and then close it.  I have had occasions where ProATC will tell me the program is still running in FSX and ask me to verify shutdown.  I just have not seen any errors whatsoever doing this.

 

Now the as_btstrp.dll for ASN is loaded via the dll.xml and, when you install ASN, run FSX for the first time, it will ask you whether you want to accept it or not for security reasons.  Of course it is best to accept it and it will then be placed in the Trusted section of the fsx.cfg.  You might want to make sure it was blessed.  You state you have some other programs like the EFB and VPilot and these programs have to shut down too but could possibly get hung up and interfering with the shutdown with ASN.  Might be less likely but it is something to think about.  I will try sometime to see if I can replicate the running of the as_btstrp.dll in the Task Manager after shutting down FSX.  Even if it is doing that, I would still manually shutdown ASN as soon as you close FSX.  It's not going to hurt nothing (or at least I haven't had any problems doing it that way).

 

Looks like in a subsequent post you are closing things down first and then FSX.  I have not had that problem but then I do not have the EFB, VPilot and maybe a lot of other addons you have.  You can also turn on the option to prompt on exit when shutting down FSX.  That will cause some delays until addons are closed and then the prompt will appear and FSX should shutdown normally.

 

Best regards,

Yes, every system is a bit different, and what happens on one, may not on another all other things being equal! FWIW, the ASN issue did happen during the recent beta testing phase before the release of SP1, and have not had that crash since, so it may have only been a problem with a particular beta version of their DLL.

 

In any case, I'm now elbows-deep in testing FSX-SE, and ASN is not yet compatible, so that won't be an issue for the moment. Have had no crashes in SE of any kind (yet!)

 

 

FWIW, the ASN issue did happen during the recent beta testing phase before the release of SP1, and have not had that crash since,

 

I think I know exactly what you are talking about now Jim.  I had similar crashes back a while ago but the latest releases have not caused me any problems.  Hopefully FSX-SE will provide a bit more stability but think we need to make sure all the installers are compatible with SE.  Otherwise, you get a crash and it could have been a back install of an addon and nothing to do with SE.

 

I'm under the weather so will try to rest in bed for a couple of day.  Caught a super nasty cold last night and it is killing me.  Again, thanks for your comments and input. 

 

Best regards,

Thanks for the response! I'll start my investigation. But in my DLL.XML none of my addons are listed? Just like FSUIPC etc but no aircraft or ASN REX4D etc?

Got another NTDLL.DLL when coming out of FSUIPC

 

I have raised my voltage from 1.13 to 1.14

I can guarantee Vernon that that is the issue.  Ntdll.dll errors will always show when you touch the voltages.  Take it back to 1.13 and see what happens.  If it continues though you are going to have to go back to the optimal default settings for your BIOS and start overclocking again.

 

Best regards,

Hi jim, it was crashing at 1.13 so i raised it to 1.14 and see how i get on with that