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willultra99

Can not save flightplan

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I run windows7 and I use simbrief as my flight planner.  I download the flightplan and try to save it in fsx/pmdg/flighplans/777.  and it tells me I don't have admin rights to save a file here.  What do I need to do to get admin rights to save a flight plan here.  I am logged in as administrator

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You should be logged in as a "User" and your FSX Program Files folder should have the permissions "Write" and "Modify" added to the "Users Group" on that FSX Program Files folder.

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I am logged in as administrator

 

That's only part of the battle. If you Google it, you'll get a bunch more tutorials on the various things you can do to fix this issue.

 

Here's a brief run down, though:

To do this, navigate to the Microsoft Games folder on your drive and:
Right click on the Flight Simulator X folder:
Select Properties
Select the Security tab at the top
Click on the Users account in the Group box
In the Permissions box, check the box Full Control
Click OK
This grants you (a User - Tron reference?) and the programs you use in that folder admin rights to the folder. Essentially, what is happening is the computer is writing the changes (your key assignments) to a 'ghost' (Compatibility Files) folder, which the PMDG Options panel ignores the next time you run it. Using admin rights writes those changes to the actual file, not a file in a 'ghost' folder. As a quick note, if you have problems with any other program (especially when it comes to settings not saving, etc), you should grant admin rights to the program's location first before trying other things. UAC has its place in Windows, but it ends up being a bear if you don't know how to keep it in check.

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I don't like nanny states and I don't like nanny software... UAC is off on my machine.  Sure, I have to be diligent and not open emails from suspicious sources and not install anything I don't trust but I consider that 'normal' and UAC just gets in the way.

 

However, if you are new to Windows security and permissions then it is best to keep UAC turned on.  Be sure you follow the recommendations in the Introduction document that is included with the product and you'll not have a problem.

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The OP is logged in as an Administrator yet cannot save to some folder, proving that making oneself an admin is not the answer to these issues. Ignoring security built into Windows is just a problem waiting to happen. If Windows security is a problem, and normal user accounts and UAC "just gets in the way", it is because the security is mis-understood by that user. As a Windows developer, I've never encountered problems. Admin accounts don't help much, but setting the proper permissions for the Users Group is generally all that is needed. All the required permissions are in place apart from Write and Modify, and when Modify is checked, so is Write automatically checked with it, so one only need check Modify for the Users Group on a folder - choosing Full Control is actually not correct but will work effectively.

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Also this happend when you have FSX installesd in C:/Program Files x86. As the PMDG itself and all other modern add-on for FSX nowdays says, in Introduction manual, at page 22 you can read:

 

"Do not install FSX into the default installation directory: When installing FSX, do not install the simulator into the default directory that it offers. Instead, customize the directory to something different. (Example: C:\FSX) This will eliminate problems that many users experience resulting from various Windows protection and permission issues forced upon programs placed in the Program Files and Program Files (x86) directories."

I hope you already do this....

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The OP is logged in as an Administrator yet cannot save to some folder, proving that making oneself an admin is not the answer to these issues.

 

Yes and no...

 

Logging in as an admin does not give your user account admin rights to the Program Files folders. With UAC on, it's a fact that any and all user accounts must provide admin level permission - even if temporary when it prompts you - in certain instances.

 

 

 


Admin accounts don't help much, but setting the proper permissions for the Users Group is generally all that is needed.

 

This is exactly what I told him to do...

 

 

 


All the required permissions are in place apart from Write and Modify, and when Modify is checked, so is Write automatically checked with it, so one only need check Modify for the Users Group on a folder - choosing Full Control is actually not correct but will work effectively.

 

...except that full control takes care of all of that in a single click.

 

Sure, following the security principle of least privilege, you want to give the account the minimum amount of control to accomplish the task at hand. We're talking about personal computers here, though, so that really doesn't come into play for 99% of the people reading this.

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Sure, following the security principle of least privilege, you want to give the account the minimum amount of control to accomplish the task at hand. We're talking about personal computers here, though, so that really doesn't come into play for 99% of the people reading this.

 

Thank you, I bit my tongue at the "as a Windows developer" statement used to establish credibility.  I've been writing computer programs since CP/M-80 but I'm no expert (at anything LOL).

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...except that full control takes care of all of that in a single click.

 

Sure, following the security principle of least privilege, you want to give the account the minimum amount of control to accomplish the task at hand. We're talking about personal computers here, though, so that really doesn't come into play for 99% of the people reading this.

Hehe, and so is checking Modify is just one single click :D

 

I see no harm in extolling the proper way to do things.

 

I bit my tongue at the "as a Windows developer" statement used to establish credibility

My products establish the credibility, words are just words.

 

 

Also this happend when you have FSX installesd in C:/Program Files x86. As the PMDG itself and all other modern add-on for FSX nowdays says, in Introduction manual, at page 22 you can read:

 

"Do not install FSX into the default installation directory: When installing FSX, do not install the simulator into the default directory that it offers. Instead, customize the directory to something different. (Example: C:\FSX) This will eliminate problems that many users experience resulting from various Windows protection and permission issues forced upon programs placed in the Program Files and Program Files (x86) directories."

I hope you already do this....

I understand why PMDG say this. However, all their installer needed to do is install the Read/Write stuff in a location away from Program Files, or set permissions on their folder. In my experience supporting FSX, this causes a lot of pain for those that don't know a lot about the PC. Leaving folk to work stuff out for themselves creates *just these kind of support calls*. QED.

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Just a heads up with the advent of FSX-SE. With the case of FX-SE, the SteamApps folder already has the proper permissions for Read/Write, so there's no need to relocate the FSX-SE folder to circumvent permissions issues. However FSX-SE introduced a new problem with the "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\FSX" folder (C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\FSX-SE in a dual install with FSX). Regular FSX installs provide permission for authenticated users on that folder, however FSX-SE does not. So we have the FSX-SE executable elevating to Admin privileges when the sim is started, so that the Scenery.cfg and other files are accessible. It would be simpler for the installer to add Write and Modify permissions to the Users Group on that folder and avoid the invoke Admin statement from the manifest. It's a good idea to do this manually on an FSX-SE installation. The plethora of addons, scenery, and so on for FSX can hide malware. I would think by now that nefarious parties are well aware of the way security is flagrantly ignored on many FSX installations.

 

Those insisting on making a new folder for P3D, FSX, or FSX-SE, should note that this still does not circumvent all permissions issues, since that folder merely inherits the permissions of the User. This can lead to other mysterious problems further down the line with networking and installations of some addons. Let alone if that account becomes corrupted and the User starts another. In a discussion recently it was noted that although another folder was made for FSX, they had to "take ownership" of that folder to get some addons to work. The problem boils down again to the same thing, only the Users Group needed the correct permissions, not the User...

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and all works fine

So applying the permissions solved it for you then eh? It's unfortunate though, nearly every day a problem like this comes up in a forum somewhere.

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I'll just say to those guys with admin accounts, etc. It's best to be a regular user. For example, when a setup.exe is used to install software, a good one would check itself for malware before *elevating to admin privileges*. So if you are already admin or you start it "Run as Admin" then the payload is already released before the program gets a chance to quit.

 

As a developer, because consequently I do a lot with a PC, I've not found Windows security to get in the way. Not a remark intended to "establish credibility", Dan, that's just mis-representing good information I feel is worth pressing.

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Not just no... but...  wow..  No.

No really, but wow yes. :))

 

Funny though that they wouldn't leave their homes unlocked just to avoid a bunch of keys. Even so it's unfair to make fun of them because I think their feelings that security causes them a problem is borne partly from bumps in the road like the OP had exporting to plan directories.

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No really, but wow yes. :))

 

Funny though that they wouldn't leave their homes unlocked just to avoid a bunch of keys. Even so it's unfair to make fun of them because I think their feelings that security causes them a problem is borne partly from bumps in the road like the OP had exporting to plan directories.

 

Not sure where the disconnect is here, Steve. What I told the OP to do has worked, despite your assertions that you have "not found Windows security to get in the way." If that were the truth neither my fix, nor your assertion to use a lesser privilege level would have worked.

 

Moreover:

when a setup.exe is used to install software, a good one would check itself for malware before *elevating to admin privileges*

 

Yes and no. While a good installer may verify its checksum, it's not a specific scan for malware as much as it's a scan for corruption, though data alteration through malware would also be caught.

 

So if you are already admin or you start it "Run as Admin" then the payload is already released before the program gets a chance to quit.

 

 

This one is mostly wrong. Even the Win admin accounts require intentional privilege escalation in order to have the highest permissions available. Sure, you have more privileges as an admin than you would as a normal user, but being the admin account does not give you root privileges. You must intentionally escalate using "Run as Admin" in a manner similar to using sudo on a Linux CL.

 

Speaking of Linux, the Windows ideology is actually pretty similar. Logging in with an admin account on a Linux box does not absolve you of running into permissions issues. In a manner similar to Win UAC, attempting to run something as an admin (with default settings), the box will prompt you. Win gives you the pop up Yes/No box, while Linux gives you an error unless you specify that you wish to invoke root privs.

 

As far as full control versus write/modify, on a personal box, it really doesn't matter much.

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Not sure where the disconnect is here, Steve

There's none, I'm simply saying we can do more to save the OP from that kind of trouble.

 

The OP's planner could do better. For example, it wasn't much work for my own planner to check the export directory for permissions. If the permissions don't allow the file export, the planner asks the user to allow elevation to admin, and the required permissions are set for the user. Since it's only needed to be set once, consequently other programs wanting access to the plan folder never have any problem.

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This one is mostly wrong. Even the Win admin accounts require intentional privilege escalation in order to have the highest permissions available. Sure, you have more privileges as an admin than you would as a normal user, but being the admin account does not give you root privileges.

Wrong. Yes, it's like when we had WinXP, when most user accounts had those privileges. These offered exploits, and so now we now have the added security features of Win7 and Win8. You make it sound like it was all unnecessary Kyle. :D

 

Never the less, programs that worked properly for regular users back then continue to work without intervention on Win8.

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OK Kyle, I found some time to answer the rest of your post that was picking through my advice looking for flaws:
 

What I told the OP to do has worked, despite your assertions that you have "not found Windows security to get in the way." If that were the truth neither my fix, nor your assertion to use a lesser privilege level would have worked.


You are laughably changing the meaning of 'get in the way'. That's just unnecessary spin. Obviously I am saying I have no trouble 'using' security features and being logged on as an ordinary user, security does not get in the way of my workflow.

 

While a good installer may verify its checksum, it's not a specific scan for malware as much as it's a scan for corruption, though data alteration through malware would also be caught.


Perhaps if I had said 'check itself for tampering by malware', would have satisfied your propensity for exactitude. Of course a checksum would be handy to find corruption, however there's more to that to check for tampering and provide safeguards.

Defeating malware is about removing the options it has available.

 

As far as full control versus write/modify, on a personal box, it really doesn't matter much.

 
I did mention that it's not such a big deal. I was only being exact like you, so you should be able to live with it.

 

I was narked about the same old permission support though. No! no...nooo, no not another permission issue. It's certainly good to see support on that issue and setting permissions is getting airtime nowadays. I've been posting the permissions fix since before I joined AVSIM and it's becoming de-rigour now - so that's well done guys. Better than suggesting a reinstall of FSX at least.

But come on, arguing about admin account or user? You can only say it's user, you can't professionally appear to ignore any element of security on a support forum!

 

If Dan, or the OP wants to be admin, that's fine, but It's quite normal to recommend the user account, as I mentioned in the first post. Being an admin didn't solve the OPs problem anyway, and it's one door unlocked for the exploits already!

In the end the OP chose your "Full Control" solution, it's attractive, all that control, but you admit it's slightly over the top. I said it wasn't a big deal, but I would say it unnecessarily provides more of those 'options'. Scroll to the start of this discussion, you can't deny that my answer was at least, equally correct.

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