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ramprat

Autopilot

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Hi All,

 

As with most Carenado products, the autopilot logic is esoteric at best.  This one is the worst yet IMO.  I have followed the Carenado Pro Line 21 User Manual instructions with no success.  So, I am starting this thread in hopes of getting some input on how to get the Hawker to navigate and control altitude (ascent and descent) and keeping the info in one place where it's easily accessible for us all.   Also, if anyone can make the GTN750 work with this bird, that would be great.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill in Colorado

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My friend told me to get the ALTS mode working (altitude capture), first set alt mode then use vs or FLC - I haven't had time to try it yet

 

Still that method is backwards

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My friend told me to get the ALTS mode working (altitude capture), first set alt mode then use vs or FLC - I haven't had time to try it yet

 

Still that method is backwards

Thanks Ryan,

 

I'll give it a go and see what happens.  If it works, then all we have to figure out is how to get it to stay on the flight planned course.  I'm beginning to think the GTN750 integration might be the best answer. 

 

Take care,

Bill

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I have the same frustration with the autopilot:

 

1.  PFD should indicate "AP" when autopilot is engaged...  not YD, or blank..

 

2.  PFD should indicate HDG when heading mode is engaged... not blank when in ALT mode..

 

3.  VS mode should indicate selected VSI

 

4.  When I select a target altitude, I expect FLC to get me there, not go past it

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Bert and guys I figured out ALTS.  Basically just set an ALT in the window, and once on AP, select your lateral mode if desired, then just use the scroll wheel... don't use FLC or VS... and ALTS will work.  Of course that's worthless because FLC is the safest way to climb.

 

altsdonttouch.jpg

 

altsworked.jpg

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Carenado wrote me about my concerns for the VS and FLC modes:

 

We modeled and programed the aircraft according to the real one and the plane´s AP works like that, one system is the VS mode that keeps the rate of climb until you press the ALT HOLD and the other is the ALT SEL, where you can select the altitude and change the rate of climb with the up or down wheel (not selecting VS or won´t level at the selected altitude).

 

The FLC mode it also works like i´m explaining to you.

 

^ I'm just not sure I understand what C is saying, every PL21 I've seen has ALTS in conjunction with VS or FLC mode.

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I'm surprised they didn't use the system they have in the PC12 as the alt arm/FLC seems to work in that.

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Carenado wrote me about my concerns for the VS and FLC modes:

 

We modeled and programed the aircraft according to the real one and the plane´s AP works like that, one system is the VS mode that keeps the rate of climb until you press the ALT HOLD and the other is the ALT SEL, where you can select the altitude and change the rate of climb with the up or down wheel (not selecting VS or won´t level at the selected altitude).

 

The FLC mode it also works like i´m explaining to you.

 

^ I'm just not sure I understand what C is saying, every PL21 I've seen has ALTS in conjunction with VS or FLC mode.

That statement doesn't describe a Pro Line 21 autopilot at all.

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That statement doesn't describe a Pro Line 21 autopilot at all.

 

Ahhh, and therein lies the problem folks.  They modeled something other than a Pro Line 21.  I would love to see Carenado team up with someone who knows RW systems and avionics.  That would put them up in the top tier IMO as they already make one of the best visual models.  Maybe someday??

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Well, in an attempt to get something working while we wait for a patch, I made a little headway using the GTN750.  I found using the FSX key command for Nav instead of the Hawker NaV button worked to couple the Hawker to the GTN as far as following the flight plan is concerned.  However, I haven't figured out how to get the Hawker to fly either an ILS or an RNAV approach.  The APP button on the panel doesn't work and the FSX Approach mode key command doesn't work either. 

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The autopilot is too complex for that GTN. It is integrated with the FMS and doesn't speak the simple language of Garmin.

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The autopilot is too complex for that GTN. It is integrated with the FMS and doesn't speak the simple language of Garmin.

 

Thanks Ed.  I have not been able to consistently couple the autopilot to an approach without the GTN.  Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.  I can't figure out what is what.  I suspect that complexity factor is at play and there might be some variable I am unaware of.  Hope they fix this thing soon.

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The FLC sort of works - but it's buggy. It doesn't seem to be correcting when reducing speed, and the correction when you're reaching up to the set speed isn't fast enough.

 

Next step is to delve into the coding...

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Rats that's a shame. Now we've gotta get this FMS figured out.

 

I think it is going to be like the Citation..  some of us will get the FMS working better, and some of us will go the GTN 750 route.

 

For now, we should be leaning on Carenado to make the airplane they designed work as well as possible.

 

Later, when they move on, we can pick up the pieces and modify to our hearts content  B)

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The FLC sort of works - but it's buggy. It doesn't seem to be correcting when reducing speed, and the correction when you're reaching up to the set speed isn't fast enough.

 

Next step is to delve into the coding...

 

Agreed... I wrote C about this

I think it is going to be like the Citation..  some of us will get the FMS working better, and some of us will go the GTN 750 route.

 

 

Except one guy already tried and the GTN won't talk to the PL21....  :(

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Except one guy already tried and the GTN won't talk to the PL21....   :(

 

Not without making some changes to the autopilot.. ^_^

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Later, when they move on, we can pick up the pieces and modify to our hearts content B)

 

And they know this very well, that's why they continue to throw these out of the door untested.

Because the same folks will pick up the pieces and the same folks will buy their next buggy unrealistic product as soon as it is released.

 

Hand on heart, if it was your business why would you want to change a winning formula ?

 

The next one will be $55 because they got away with charging $50 and still folks cannot get enough of these Carenado's.

I really do not get it, why do experienced simmers especially here at Avsim put up with this stuff release after release.

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I don't regret the purchase....  I don't mind tinkering with stuff either.  Carenado has been very receptive of my emails as we've exchanged at least 6 in the last 24 hours.

 

But please keep your thoughts about people who do purchase to yourself.  A nice bizjet is something I'm willing to fight for... I'm not dumb or slow or anything, I'm not one of those suckers born every minute - just a guy who really really likes GA and am willing to go to great lengths to get one working.  I understand what I'm getting into, and I understand the difference between A2A Skylane at 50 bucks and this Hawker.  

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I don't regret the purchase....  I don't mind tinkering with stuff either.  Carenado has been very receptive of my emails as we've exchanged at least 6 in the last 24 hours.

 

But please keep your thoughts about people who do purchase to yourself.  A nice bizjet is something I'm willing to fight for... I'm not dumb or slow or anything, I'm not one of those suckers born every minute - just a guy who really really likes GA and am willing to go to great lengths to get one working.  I understand what I'm getting into, and I understand the difference between A2A Skylane at 50 bucks and this Hawker.  

Ryan,

 

Thank you for your efforts and I agree 100%. This one is worth improving! I hope Carenado treats this bird with the respect that it deserves.

 

I also hope that the simmers who don't like how Carenado fails to fix their add-ons, to please complain to Carenado via e-mail. I did not buy the Citation because there were so many poor reviews about bugs that were never addressed. Plus, I also have 2 good Citations. I wanted the Hawker with the Proline 21 Avionics.

 

If you're an experienced simmer, when you buy Carenado you know what you'll get. If you think is expensive or buggy, don't buy it, or wait until it goes on sale.

 

Complaining here is not going to get Carenado to improve their add-ons.

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I wanted the Hawker with the Proline 21 Avionics.

You got a Hawker, but you didn't get the Pro Line 21 Avionics. Not by any stretch of one's imagination.

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You got a Hawker, but you didn't get the Pro Line 21 Avionics. Not by any stretch of one's imagination.

Ed,

 

I understand, but I'm not looking for a type rating on the hawker. My expectations were exactly what I'm experiencing for an FSX sim that is primarily for entertainment purposes.

 

If I really wanted to get proficient on Pro Line 21 Avionics, I would get this:

 

http://www.kingschools.com/avionics-courses/rockwell-collins/Pro-Line-21-King-Air

 

or the more affordable Milviz 350i for a more robust simulation.

 

Comprende?

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Is it that so hard to kinda reverse the ap logic for the developer?

 

Thanks,

Dirk.


 

or the more affordable Milviz 350i for a more robust simulation.

 

 

Is it out already?

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