Hello Gang!FYI!For those of you who do not know yet, I just realized that VANS just released the 727-200 QW version; this is the 727 with winglets used today by PanAm and Aviacsa airlines. Go get it at www.vansairco.com.Have fun!Sincerely,Dennis D. Mullert

did they fix the FDE and add a VC?

Hello All, As far as I can tell, the Flight model is the same and no VC. I wish to publicly state that this is a freeware model which ultimately has great possibilities -- I love the winglet modles, (OK, I'm a freak for ANYTHING with winglets), the fuel truck, freight ramps, freight trollys and ramps are just soooo cool -- yep, I like eye candy, and boy do I wish we at DF would have placed something like that on ours. Saying that, eye candy can only get you so far if your flight model and flight dynamics are not good. I don't wish to slam Dennis's work, as it is obvious he has spent lots of time on this aircraft, but it is far from right. I'll mention only one example in the flight model and let it go at that, but a real 727, any model, does not stall at normal approach attitude with 50% fuel, 30 flaps and 160 kts -- add to that no wind to speak of or windshear, and this aircraft just should not fall out of the sky -- however it does with this pilot, and I have flown the real thing so many times, well, lets just say I've got tons of hrs in the three holer.Dennis, I love my DF 727 -- I like Ericks offering for freeware and have said so many times -- and I love the little eye candy additions you have offered us on yours . . . fix the flight model and you'll have a nice freeware aircraft that people will download. If not, its just another pretty face.Again, I love my DF and we will have our winglet model out very soon and IT flies right -- but for you freeware guys who don't have the DF and are not going to buy it, this could be a real nice offering should the flight model be adjusted so it flies properly.Just call em as I see em.Best to all, Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

I downloaded and flew it, not too bad I didn't think. Something is weird with the scale though. It shows up really small in the "Select Aircraft" preview window, and for some reason while I was flying it, my terrain textures were blurry (much more than normal) everywhere except directly underneath the airplane.I flew the approach at 140 kts with about 18,000 lbs fuel on board (roughly 33%, I think) and the default payload (about 38,000 lbs) at 25° flaps and it didn't fall out of the sky. Landing was nice, reversers were effective, but brakes were all but worthless :-bla .I thought it was a very nice exterior model, but as freeware goes, I'm still partial to Erick's Vistaliners model.Jim

Jim,Perhaps you might want to ck your settings and find out where your realizm is set. That just may be why my VANS, (any model) does wish to fall out of the sky as I have it set at 100% realism.That is also where I fly everything, as, I'm not an 'easy' flightsimmer. Just my preference, no reflections meant.Another item is the Fuel usage on #2 engine on the supers, it is NOT the same as #1 and #2. No one has seemed to do anythigng with this, and it is being addressed in DF upcoming uddate.Dennis's model does have some very nice options, however in this real world pilots opinion, the flight model leaves much to be desired -- if and when he fix's those problems, I would think it may very well can become a 'freeware' classic. Lastly, his merge with the DF panel seems to work flawlessly -- not an easy task for sure, as the DF is very complicated and needs to be addressed like the real thing, or as close as possible within FS's limits.You are very correct on the brakes, all but worthless, and the thrust reversers need a wee bit of help also. I would have liked to see him put the clamshells on the #1 and #3 as most Supers have, also the increased thrust ratings in reverse would have made a difference in the rollout. I am not a flight model expert, I just know how the real thing flies, and Dennis's model does need help in that area -- this is by no means to indicate it is not a fine job, just, like most things in life, it needs a little bit of tweeking. I am sure he did not have a house full of beta testers and take over a year to develope this aircraft -- as the DF had.In truth, if the above items were fixed, it could become a favorite freeware 727 for me as some times I just don't have time for the whole shebang as with the DF.Best to all and a happy 4th of July to all of us in the StatesClayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

I downloaded this product but couldn't get it to install. After getting to the install screen and clicking on the install button, I get a screen telling me that the install program is an unregistered version and will not proceed. Anyone else having install problems?

Yeah, I'm an "easy flightsimmer" :( , my settings were on easy so I'll give it a try with them on hard and see what happens.I've went through my "jets phase" a while back, and now I'm spending most of my time with the DH89a "Dragon Rapide" from Dave Garwood and the gang, so it may be a while till I get back to this one. I'll let you know.Jim

looks superb, as with it's siblings, and i love the survice fleet, and i can live without the VC as i can use my other 727 Cockpit. but i cant get any of them to fly, he elevator is jammed down and the FF stick locked forward, trying to take off just results in the nose gear burying itself in the ground follwed by the nose.

Clay,I'm curious, no doubt you've tried the CS727 as well and I am curious of your opinion of the CS vs DF models, not that I expect you to critisize either model but more of a professional opinon. Also, the VC is one of the most important things to me and I'm curious which is more realistic in terms of how thay look comapired to sitting in a real one. The images I've seen of both 727s, CS one just looks more "real" to me, but since I never flew a real one, I dont really know for sure.

Spooky,I'll try to handle the comparision of the CS to the DF as politely as possible.Keeping in mind, that the CS is an OLD product now, being more than a few years old, for its time we all thought it was great. When it was rumored to be released, I signed up immediately, was impressed with the pre release manual. And when the aircraft came out, for the first couple of days, I was overwhelmed by just the graphics, (which were ground breaking at that time), and the detail. Later, when I actually began to fly the aircraft, it became immediately apparant that the flight model had some serious problems. A group of us began to work on the FM, and after a week or so, finally got it to the point where the aircraft no longer made 'diving' approaches or Kamakazi ILS landings. It was great for its time, and even those who paid dearly and waited a long time for the patch, loved it -- the patch was too little, too late and time marches on, making the CS727 an old hat item. On the instrument panel, it is very difficult for me to read the gauges on the CS, hence the numbers which can be clicked on by a switch on the panel. On the VC, (I'm really not a person to ask on VC's as I don't care for them), again, I prefer the DF.All in all, the DF upstages the CS completely. The DF flies like a 727 and does 99% of it right -- assuming you know the limitations of FS and 727's. In my opinion, and NOT BECAUSE I Beta tested the DF, there is only one 727 to buy -- because it flies right and works right. Soon there will be a service release on the DF with a Super27 with and without winglets offered, with the proper thrust ratings for the Supers and all the bells and whistles which the supers had. With that release, that will presently make the DF 727 the ultimate 727 package available for FS at this time -- perhaps someone, down the line will do another, even better, but if they do, wow, they certainly have their work cut out for them, as the DF 727 has set the bar very and to match that, will take an exceptional amount of time and effort.Best and Happy 4th to all,Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

Guys,can you fly the df 727 completely from the VC, (or mostly from the vc).mike

Mike,I am probably NOT the person to answer this, as I am NOT a VC person, however I think, (again, if I am wrong, don't shoot me) you CAN fly the aircraft completely fromthe VC....tell you what, I'll try it an re report my findings.Best,Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

>Guys,>>can you fly the df 727 completely from the VC, (or mostly from>the vc).>Yes, you can. The gauge refresh rate in the VC is not all that great, so for precision ILS work I tend to switch back to the 2D panel (plus I get better frames in 2D than VC, which helps on my slower system), but if you can handle the gauge refresh rate, and you have a fairly strong system, then it's a great VC to fly from. Most all the switches do work, the only thing that you would have to go back to the 2D panel for are the flight engineer panels (fuel, electrical, pressurization, etc.). The FE panel does not work in the VC.Lewis "Moose" GregoryRichmond, Virginia