I think I would be very interested in buying this aircraft if the focus was on the accuracy of the simulation and realism. I find that the emphasis seems to be on "hey look at these screen shots" of VC and worst the inside of the cabin. To ne as a serisou simmer I would have no problem if the outside looked like crap if the model was fps friendly and the avionics and flight model were better than anything else.Please run with this a mninute; it's not all negative, in fact I've got a good suggestion later on.Let me back up for a minutute. On the flight One stand we are demonstrating flight environment and other flight one products. We didn't even have a CD of the FE product to sell. And if anyone buys it they can always get a refund if not really happy with it.Araine is very different and it's all about glossy picutures and video's showing but not a demo in site or a trail version of the aircraft or any kind of money back offer. On the surface it looks very proffessional but does not convince.So the problem Araine have is that we the paying customers need some convincing this is worth paying twice the maket value for similar aircrafts. The PMDG looks as good and is half the price. And lots of people can say hey this is great.When FS Water was released some months ago it got slammed in the forums big time. What filght one offered to all those complaining, like here who have no idea what it was like, was a free copy of FS Water to try. All of those who accepted the free copy then raved about it and said it really was good after all.Then we sold loads of copies, had lost of satisfied customers and it evolved to FE, existing customers got discounts upgrading to FE from FS Water and we are all very happy.I for one will be happy to take a free copy and if I like it pay for it. To Araine, if you really believe this product is good I can't tell you enough how most of these negative posters will suddenly become your greatest allies if you give away a few free copies. The feedback you wil get will pay ten fold and suddenly you will sell loads of copies and people will say it's worth $200 or more.If not and you decide to let things be then I think the result is that too many people will form opinions that are based on no knowledge, just opinions.Personally, I would love a better 737NG than the PMDG but so far it's got a huge following of very satisfied customers.I can tell you from personal experience that it's very hard to get pepople to change sides and use a new produce or software. People by nature are loyal and with clouds it has been a mamouth task to win people over to using my clouds, It is not enought to say these are better just look at the screen shots.It takes time and patience and has little to do with cost.It is about perception and that's the mountain you guys have to move.Peter

"Probably not doing to happen due to legal issues."That's a shame concidering everyone else from Cirrus to Cessna allows it... Actually that's not the issue at all, it's getting access to one that's the whole problem. I don't believe anyone has approched Gulfstream directly..

>50

>"Probably not doing to happen due to legal issues.">>That's a shame concidering everyone else from Cirrus to Cessna>allows it... Actually that's not the issue at all, it's>getting access to one that's the whole problem. I don't>believe anyone has approched Gulfstream directly..Actually, Eaglesoft did. Not only did Gulfstream refuse to provide any assistance or co-opertaion, they rumbled about taking legal action.

Dillon:You miss the point. The problem is not whether all NG's have the same occkpit or not. But you're charging a high price for a VC and model which most of your customers have (because let's face it, Ariane isn't exactly wanting to find new customers, they just squeeze the pennies out of the few who do return). Really, if you guys are fans for X or Y reasons that's fine, but you cannot deny you're being ripped off, because it's just so. When a product is twice the cost of the competition, you're not out to be competitive, you're out to make insane profits.I've always said it, I'll say it again. Ariane can do whatever it wants as long as people are crazy enough to keep getting ripped off. They just sold you guys a "BBJ" that is the -700 VCe with winglets with a cabin slapped on it and got 50 pounds for it, when other developers charge half the price for an all-new model, panel, etc.No problem if you like the product, nobody denies Ariane can do good stuff. But you got VERY ripped off to get it, and that can't really be denied. Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)

>Dillon:>>You miss the point. The problem is not whether all NG's have>the same occkpit or not. But you're charging a high price for>a VC and model which most of your customers have (because>let's face it, Ariane isn't exactly wanting to find new>customers, they just squeeze the pennies out of the few who do>return). Really, if you guys are fans for X or Y reasons>that's fine, but you cannot deny you're being ripped off,>because it's just so. When a product is twice the cost of the>competition, you're not out to be competitive, you're out to>make insane profits.>>I've always said it, I'll say it again. Ariane can do whatever>it wants as long as people are crazy enough to keep getting>ripped off. They just sold you guys a "BBJ" that is the -700>VCe with winglets with a cabin slapped on it and got 50 pounds>for it, when other developers charge half the price for an>all-new model, panel, etc.>>No problem if you like the product, nobody denies Ariane can>do good stuff. But you got VERY ripped off to get it, and that>can't really be denied. >>Daniel P.>http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpg>Member of SJU Photography. [A>HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click>Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!>The official psychotic AA painter. :)Hi Daniel,Glad you brought this up.At least Ariane is honest about what they deliver. So, if you are talking about beeing ripped off,...well that should go for the uncountable distributors, who promises one thing, and delivers another. ;-)And I only know about one more distributor who delivers as bug free products. And that would be Dreamfleet. ;-)http://www.scandicair.com/images/Banner_ariane_4.jpg

Switching the topic, are we? Having bugs that are fixed afterwards through service releases isn't exactly bad in my books. Now, I know you've had traumatic experiences with CS, and that's all good, I agree with you on that. However, the problem remains: The product is obscenely overpriced for what it brings in. Getting ripped off doesn't come from whether the product works as advertised (at least not in Ariane's case), but from whether you're getting something worth the price you're paying. Considering about 50% (if not more) of this BBJ is the same as -700 VCe, a customer who owns the latter (you, I assume) should be entitled to exponential savings instead of having to pay 50 pounds for a product that isn't even all-new.Let me ask you this: You have all their stuff (very hefty wallet, eh? ;)): What are the REAL differences between the -700 VCe and the BBJ offering? Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)

>Switching the topic, are we? Having bugs that are fixed>afterwards through service releases isn't exactly bad in my>books. Now, I know you've had traumatic experiences with CS,>and that's all good, I agree with you on that. However, the>problem remains: The product is obscenely overpriced for what>it brings in. Getting ripped off doesn't come from whether the>product works as advertised (at least not in Ariane's case),>but from whether you're getting something worth the price>you're paying. Considering about 50% (if not more) of this BBJ>is the same as -700 VCe, a customer who owns the latter (you,>I assume) should be entitled to exponential savings instead of>having to pay 50 pounds for a product that isn't even>all-new.>>Let me ask you this: You have all their stuff (very hefty>wallet, eh? ;)): What are the REAL differences between the>-700 VCe and the BBJ offering? Hi again,In general, I actually agree with you. That for existing customers it should be offered as an upgrade. And beleive me, I have been discussing this with Ariane. It wouldn

"I think I would be very interested in buying this aircraft if the focus was on the accuracy of the simulation and realism."Peter the only reason I haven't discussed accuracy and realism is because we've already talked about that to death in other threads. The Ariane 737NG hands down is the most realistic simulation of the 737NG around (this is without the BBJ variant). I don't want to go too much into this but if you do a search on 'Ariane 737NG' in this forum as well as other Flightsim related sites you'll find everything you need to know on this area of the product. PMDG and Ariane have both produced equally awesome depictions of the 737NG in Flight Simulator. The differences are in price and the fact that Ariane's version out performs PMDG's version in the VC by 8 or more frames per second. I

"But I think that the differences are not that many, when it comes to the panel."And it shouldn't be since we're talking about a comparison between two 737NG's. This boils down to who wants a large private jet version of the 737NG and who doesn't. Asking how different two identical jets are is insane, their supposed to have the same exact cockpit. Ariane has added new features like opening cockpit windows and black cushioned seats

>"But I think that the differences are not that many, when it>comes to the panel.">>And it shouldn't be since we're talking about a comparison>between two 737NG's.Exactly what I mean. Just tried to spice it with a tad of irony. ;-)But as I said in previous posts. It is difficult to explain for those who doesn

OK, i read enough to bring me in. I have been quiet for a while ;)Staffan, let me ask you something. I put a bunch of effort painting the BBJ model of Ariane, the first version without panel. Will the textures i got fit with the new one or did the elements change?Second question, as a loyal Ariane customer. I purchased the whole 737 Classic series, i purchased several others and i got, due to helping Ariane with some textures stuff and FDE stuff certain gifts. I got the 737-900 VCe. DO you see any way that i can upgrade my BBJ to this BBJ VCe to an affordable price. I getting a child in october and i just spend a four digits amount in child stuff.Honestly, 50 pounds for me right now totally nonaffordableCheersMartin

>2."There's no HUD", Hopefully Ariane will add this at a later>date.And what? Charge another 50 Bucks for it???

Yes I agree, I really do want to buy this product it's just that at the moment I don't feel cofident it's worth $50 or if it's going to work well on my set-up and that's some serious money to pay for something that too few people have convinced me about.But I'm looking to spend some money and I want to buy this....I'm just waiting for somebody to say without hesitation this is it!Fansastic, I'll pay double and still think it's worth it.Peter

Asking how different two identical jets are is insane, their supposed to have the same exact cockpit. Ariane has added new features like opening cockpit windows and black cushioned seats